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  1. #51
    Player Stan64's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Goshiwoo
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    Cerberus
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    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Demon6324236 View Post
    I am happy you can enjoy the game, I however am unable to enjoy the game because my favorite job is rejected from almost all events even though it is setup in some of the best gear in the game for it, and I play it very well.
    I didn't want a discussion. And you clearly didn't understand the phrase "work with it".

    I only play White Mage. But for Nyzul Isle Uncharted (NNI) it wasn't viable. So I leveled and geared SCH, it took me a week (I realize it would take longer for the average person). Then we put months into NNI until we all got 15/15 in gear. I love WHM but sometimes you have to see that you can't bring every job to all events. You might think it's wrong that some bosses are zerged and there is virtually no time for a RDM to be useful really, and it might be. But that is the game and you have to take it from there. You should be glad you didn't career with BST at least.

    As a RDM you are an extremly potent player who can solo a lot of content with ease. You should go watch upbeatglitch channel on youtube for inspiration and maybe start thinking about another bandwagon main job you can decently gear if needed. But you are free to not do anything about it and whine on the forums as well. It's your choice.
    (2)

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stan64 View Post
    As a RDM you are an extremly potent player who can solo a lot of content with ease. You should go watch upbeatglitch channel on youtube for inspiration and maybe start thinking about another bandwagon main job you can decently gear if needed. But you are free to not do anything about it and whine on the forums as well. It's your choice.
    I play DRK as well, but I still complain. You said you main WHM, WHM is good in almost everything, they have few events where another job is needed and WHM is not actually a good choice. My problem is when I join any group for any event, go with my LS to almost anything, and I am told to go on SCH, BLM, DRK, or BLU, but almost never go on my RDM. I do not want RDM to be the best ever, I want it to be used with other players. I know RDM can solo a ton of things, its been able to do that since back at 75, people still do amazing things today like soloing Azdaja without cruor buffs or atma in Abyssea. My problem is that I do not simply want to solo things, but I want to play with others as well, and right now thats not actually possible. Also I have many other problems with the game like Macros and Inventory. I agree there are good enough things to keep us here and maybe we should not complain so much, but in all honesty I think I have every right and reason to complain when my job is as worthless as it is in most events and people will not let me play my job.
    (4)

  3. #53
    Player Fermion's Avatar
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    Dec 2012
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    Character
    Shidoshii
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    Asura
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    SAM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Stan64
    But you are free to not do anything about it and whine on the forums as well. It's your choice.
    Since when did wanting to get value for your money equate to whining? Although this post might get deleted, I'm going to speak my mind regardless. Look, it's obvious a certain (probably overwhelming) amount of our FFXI revenue is going towards improving FFXIV, and has been for quite a while now. It's blatantly obvious, anyone can see that. I'm personally totally apathetic about FFXIV as a game. But what I do care about, is my hard earned money NOT going towards the product that I'm paying for.

    Let's say you're renovating your basement, how would you feel if the workers barely finished one room, then took YOUR remaining resources (that you paid for) to fix your neighbors house that they botched on the first attempt? All the while, they keep giving you the run-around saying they'll get around to you soon (but you see the freaking van parked nextdoor everyday). You'd be infuriated wouldn't you? Any sane person would.

    Say what you want, but this is a terribly shady business practice, and I think lots of people are beginning to be fed up with it. I don't blame anyone for being frustrated, and I wouldn't dare have the audacity to accuse fellow patrons of "whining" for expecting an acceptable return on their investments.

    Get used to the "whining". Because if SE doesn't change their philosophy on this, there's going to be plenty more in the future.
    (8)
    Last edited by Fermion; 03-25-2013 at 05:10 PM.

  4. #54
    Player Stan64's Avatar
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    Character
    Goshiwoo
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    Cerberus
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    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Demon6324236 View Post
    WHM is good in almost everything
    Quote Originally Posted by Demon6324236 View Post
    WHM is not actually a good choice
    Contradiction. Objection! There are two reasons I'm playing career White Mage. 1. It's fun. 2 It's needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fermion View Post
    Since when did wanting to get value for your money equate to whining?
    I thought it was clearly an exaggeration when I wrote that, and was directed to a small amount of people. But there is a fine line for constructive feedback and complaints and a blatant mess of text that don't help anyone. I encouraged you to express your opinions in a graceful style. But when you read the forums many people don't do that. That's where my problems lie. And these people wont take up and answer to any outings as mine. It's you and Mr. Demon6324236, two fine chaps that easily know their way with words, that answers in stead and take criticism that was not directed at them and clearly aren't a part of the mob who can't write constructive posts.

    I also don't think the money discussion really is worth it. I really do understand the concern. But it is a company. That said there are a tons of thing you should understand. They do it for the money. And it's not the FFXI dev team who do it for the money explicitly. It's their owners. Many of them are old farts who don't understand communities and stuff like that. There is a reason big companies can't do everything good most of the times while small studios can be awesome. If you want me to explain more just tell me. I got a lot of valid points. But you are right. They are using the revenue from FFXI and put it in their pockets or try to fuel other projects that don't bear fruition right now, it's only logical from a business perspective. And I'm sure the dev team do everything in their power to make the right decisions to make us stay. They are probably hard at work and have to put up with all the complaints and threats about quitting the game, because almost no one that is happy will go online and praise. Must feel really rewarding.
    (0)
    Last edited by Stan64; 03-25-2013 at 10:05 PM.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demon6324236 View Post
    WHM is good in almost everything, they have few events where another job is needed and WHM is not actually a good choice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stan64 View Post
    Contradiction. Objection! There are two reasons I'm playing career White Mage. 1. It's fun. 2 It's needed.
    Almost everything, means a large majority of things, but not all things, in this case, WHM is good in almost everything, there are very few events where WHM is not amazing, one of which you mentioned, NNI, that is one of the few events where WHM is not a good choice. So really, that was not a contradiction. As for why you are a career WHM. I never questioned why you are, I stated why I am, and the differences between your job and my job. As you said, your job is needed, my problem is, I do not have that same thing going for me. My list of reasons for being a career RDM are fairly similar to yours, but without one of the reasons you have, my list consists of... 1. It's fun. The end, I mean other than that I am good at it, but I think that is something that comes with maining a job for more than a few days.

    My job is not needed basically, this is my point, that is why I complain. Others complain about their jobs for the same reason, like SMNs, who are allowed to join alliances for Perfect Defense, and are a near requirement right now, once thats taken down a notch, wheres SMN gonna go? They have been missing their latest Avatars which were announced more than two years ago, they have an extremely long timer on their most powerful moves which if lowered could make them somewhat respectable in damage.

    I understand you did not come here and make your post in an attempt to get into a discussion, nor did you want or expect one I am sure. Fact is, I admit, I brought you into one, and the reason why I did so is because you basically said we should be happy with what we get, but in some cases, what we get really is not good enough. Updates put back for more than a year, problems and bugs never fixed, not helping players out with content we believe to be broken, not explaining things we do not understand even with our testing, refusing to update content which has ridiculous features to it.

    In case you are at all curious of examples. Updates, Storage, Avatars, DRK Fast Cast, just to name a few. Problems and bugs, helping us with broken content, well go farm the Beastmen Kings in Aht for a Mythic, get back to me in two months when you finally get them all to spawn. Not explaining things we think are broken, look at the Emp DRG+2 legs, we still have no idea what "Enhances Soul Jump" does after its had years to test it, the player base finds out most things like this in less than a month, we have waited years, no success. Refusing to update content, look at VW and its .5% or lower drop rates on weapons and tell me what human being thinks that is in any way a sane drop rate for an item that drops in an event that requires 12~18 people to do it.

    The point is, this player base complains because we see problems and flaws in this game. To you and may seem much better, you seem like you have done most content, you have all of the achievements, thats says something all on its own about your experience with the games content. So its completely possible you have done everything, and think overall its good. Then again, I have no idea what kind of player you are either, do you enjoy the story? Do you enjoy collecting gear? Do you strive to be the best and enjoy the climb to attain that power? I can not say, but it all effects your outlook on the game as well. I myself strive to be the best RDM there is, while I enjoy playing the game with friends and want to enjoy the game as my RDM, rather than being forced on to other jobs. This game as it is right now, does not support that for me, drop rates on many things are to low, like Ephemeron, my RDM is not accepted because it is too weak for most content even in the best of gear, and rather than voicing my complains, I am told on the very forums which were made for feedback, that I should be happy with the game how it is.

    I am sorry for ranting, I am tired and I get like this when I am, but I also am speaking my mind, so I hope you take my words to heart and understand my point of view rather than misunderstanding it and taking it the wrong way as I believe you did last time.
    (3)

  6. #56
    Player Stan64's Avatar
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    Windurst
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    Goshiwoo
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    Cerberus
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    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Demon6324236 View Post
    Words, lots of them.
    Well spoken, Sir!

    Now let's get back on track and use this thread for hyping up Adoulin and hope it's more RDM friendly!

    I'm mostly curious how hard Skirmish is and how much gearing you need to do in Colonization before you can do it properly. And they even touched briefly that they are already planning a higher tier than Skirmish. Makes me giggly. =D
    (1)

  7. #57
    Player Sarick's Avatar
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    Character
    Saricks
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Now let's get back on track and use this thread for hyping up Adoulin and hope it's more RDM friendly!
    I think a lot of people missed the points of complaints. I think the logic is simple at this point. Like it or not ALL things are eventually going to die. You can either stand up and fight for life, lay back and die without a fight or assist in its process. What side have you chosen when you see people tell others to "Just quit!", "Stop complaining" or "lets hype it anyway?"

    You have people complaining about the loss of resources, that in turn causes a bigger negative impact. People get on that band wagon when others say "Just quit!" and "Stop whining!" that makes people want to leave more. When those people leave things don't get better. There are less resources and the cycle repeats until the system eventually collapses. I say this time and time again. PEOPLE COMPLAIN BECAUSE THEY CARE! If they didn't care they wouldn't complain. When they just leave without complaining they're letting nature take its course the same way people eventually react to terminal illnesses.

    What I'm seeing is this mentality "as long as we can get money out of it we'll keep it going" as stated in a past interview. This means that if people keep playing they don't really care as long as the money keeps flowing. If the money stops flowing they do care about the money but, instead of gaining customer confidence, they might choose to cut more resources or just flat out cancel the game.

    I think they realize the game has seen better days and investing money in promotion isn't worth it. The expansion did help a little but even in it's hay day at the peek of profits it was underachieving from the corporate standpoint. This was stated officially by a high level SE staff.

    What's this mean? it means that the seekers expansion might be the last invested large scale project for this version. When people complain it's more likely pointless aside from the satisfaction of saying "I told you so." or "I'm upset the direction things are headed and the way we feel abandon."

    I can tell from what I'm seeing they aren't promoting player/popularity base growth. It's like the money from the loyal players is keeping this game alive but not allowed to make it grow. When people complain it isn't very important if the agenda isn't GROW the player base and it's public popularity. Obviously if these loyal customers leave and they can't cut enough corners to make a respectable profit they'll just shut it down entirely.

    This is just like if you stop paying or the credit card issues a charge back. They won't call you to say hay why did you stop paying? They'll just suspend your account until you come back asking about it with money in hand. In most cases you'll need to jump through hoops to get back into the game if your account becomes delinquent. They also don't usually send people questionnaires unless you directly ask them to email you one. So when people quit they don't get a "please tell us why you left." It's more like when you stop payment business is finalized then and there without regard to the loss of loyal customers.

    It's not like you still see worldwide commercials when the game was first launched "Final Fantasy 11 a massive online MMO etc. etc. I don't think there is much care publicly if it shuts down at this point because they're putting the promotional efforts into moving customers into FFXIV. This gives the impression that FFXI is being used to simply maintain the extremely loyal customers in it for the re-lauch of FFXIV. This way when they eventually shut down FFXI they'll have a better chance of moving the loyal players to FFXIV.

    The issues players are seeing may only get worse as time go's along. Less happy customers = less profit. Less profit = less resources sent to support and/or development. In this case it'll probability cause less development resources that result in even more issues. Make people happy and the profits increase or stabilize. If you keep taking away the resources needed to keep people happy or become oblivious to their wants/needs there is only one direction things can go.

    Look at them recently dropping XP support. Sure it's an old OS but the game is also 10 years old and their FFXIV is supporting XP! The costumers who have the outdated OS are sort of being thrown away. Even though the game runs better on XP for most players. It's announcements like this that give customers the impression that "we don't really care." You can't disagree if you aren't affected by the outcome.

    I also don't think it's the guy making these game changes choice. They're probably being pushed into a corner and doing their best to survive with resources being taken away to promote more lucrative investments. If you read the wiki the CEO stated that FFXI was the most profitable title SE has ever launched. He said this around the same time they announced this latest expansion. In reality contradictory financial statement was made elsewhere about how they STILL wasn't satisfied with the turn around profits.

    For the record I didn't mention any names of staff members or other posters when I wrote this. If you want your stuff deleted quick just say the names of company staff when complaining it'll get your message deleted really quick. Also on side not if you think your post is going to get deleted keep a backup and post it offsite outside this forums general control. Then unless you receive a cease and desist letter or become banned you should have something people can read still if someone decides to nuke it.

    I could go on about this. But would rather get back to the topic. I think the developers can learn from the "Tales of X" this games have jobs that are unique classes with stronger functionality in balanced aspects of combat. They can also run on AI that is fully configurable like FF12 characters with the multi-character AI. The Tales characters didn't even have MP yet still managed to make mages and DD's balanced because their casting times kept things in check. They also don't even have a hate system the monster chooses a target based on what it thinks will make it win or survive the longest dynamically.

    If you can't get new customers you can at least make it so the customers who wish it can buy accounts that are server AI NPC characters. At least you'll get multiple money from a single customer because the people who are quitting where loyal and actually helpful.

    On a final note I like to see the announcements in advance. I doubt complaining will affect the direction they take but still at least we know what to expect in the future.
    (4)
    Last edited by Sarick; 03-26-2013 at 01:55 AM. Reason: I'm not perfect but I want it to be as perfect as I can get it.
    Developers take notice when a post has a lot of likes. Please support your fellow posters if they make good suggestions or comments by clicking the like.

  8. #58
    Player Karbuncle's Avatar
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    First off, even though I'm directly quoting you, most if not all of the below does not apply directly to you, i want to make that clear, allrighty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarick View Post
    I think a lot of people missed the points of complaints. I think the logic is simple at this point. Like it or not ALL things are eventually going to die. You can either stand up and fight for life, lay back and die without a fight or assist in its process. What side have you chosen when you see people tell others to "Just quit!", "Stop complaining" or "lets hype it anyway?"
    I think a lot of people are rather delusional in believing their unfounded crybabying is some how this "BRAVEHEART" level justice they're fighting for against an evil dictator who laughs at their misfortune and abuses them for the lulz. But, then again, thats an opinion, as is the entirety of the above quote.

    Don't get me wrong, If Diablo 3 and Sim City 5, two latest examples, taught me anything, its that the consumer NEEDS to be vocal about all the bullsh*t developers do today... But whats being shown here isn't a DRM shoved up our A**, or features being removed because their servers suck... or countless Nickle/diming... Whats happening here is real time constraints forcing content to be pushed back because they don't want to release unfinished content.

    I'd personally rather wait for Moogle resort to come out, than to get it in 4 easy installments of an update each, with it being glitchy and unusable for the majority of its release time (See: Sim City 5).

    But back more the point, There's a fine line between standing up for an obvious slap in the face to consumers (Always online DRM, releasing a sh*tty half finished product, RMAH integration), and crying because content got pushed back due to time restraints. If some of the complainers can't see this, this is where the problem comes up.

    You're not swinging a sword leading an army to victory against a tyrannical "SE Overlord" by smashing your keyboard "WHERZ MY MOG HOWSE RESORT, YOU DEMONS".

    Oh and please note, I'm not using you specifically for the examples above, just some of what I've read on here. I mean, you are really ranty and kinda like, 13% Tinfoil Hat, but you're a fair step above the basic complainers. - Also don't get me wrong, I'm ranty as sh*t when it comes to THF, and I'm probably 17% Tinfoil hat.

    You have people complaining about the loss of resources, that in turn causes a bigger negative impact.
    I'm upset as any FFXI Pl ayer about the loss of resources. But lets get real honest here for a moment. Its an 11 year old game. Even if they advertized, ain't no one wanting to play an 11 year old game. It can't do what modern MMOs can, and SE knows this... its why FFXIV Exists.

    I'm not wanting to accept it, but from a practical business, and even logical standpoint, Increasing staff and money into this game is >Not< going to increase their revenue in the long run. This game is old, maybe not dying, but very old. The limitations on staff were to be expected. I'm not saying "JUST BE LUCKY WERE GETTING ANYTHING", i'm just asking you to accept the reality that with age, MMOs will slowly lose staff, as the playerbase dwindles.

    Though I admit i would like to see a bit more staff, I can't blame them for their business choices, and a few of us huffing and puffing isn't going to give them more staff, if anything, enough quitting and they'll turn off the game and bring the rest of the dev team to other projects or to FFXIV, and they wont look back.

    People get on that band wagon when others say "Just quit!" and "Stop whining!" that makes people want to leave more.
    I notice we're kinda going in a circle here, but as pointed out above, theres a fine line between standing up for BS, and crying because its not as >Perfect< as you want it. Not accusing you of such, just, most posters here fall into the second category. Whinning cause its not perfect. (God knows I have done this before when it comes to THF updates, so i know where they're coming from, but i also know its unproductive and will not help)

    ... I won't quote you on the rest since i'd likely be talking in circles, But to make a long story short, i want you to walk away knowing this. I do believe legitimate complaints should be made, but 99% of what i read on these forums are either completely asinine, or presented so dumbly that it makes an asinine. Even the Community reps have said countless times, its easier to present complaints/issues if they can understand why you're complaining. going "I AINT PLAY NO JOB CAUSE BELLS" ... means what? Remove the bells? Recolor them? Make the animation different?

    This is just an example, but the more clear and defined your complaint is, the easier it is to convey to the dev team.

    Again, most of these examples likely don't apply to you.
    (4)

  9. #59
    Player fernando's Avatar
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    Ferney
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    I for one like the game,i also understand some of the frustrations ppl have for the game.That being said i really don't like the rants,if your that mad just let it go and move on,imo. I for one am excited for this release,just hope like most of us,that it will be fun,and add more excitement back in the game i play...just sayin.
    (1)

  10. #60
    Player Yinnyth's Avatar
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    Yinnyth
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    Fenrir
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    BRD Lv 99
    Sarick, you raise some excellent points in your previous post, but (and forgive me if I'm misunderstanding you) I believe our definitions of "stand up and fight for it" may be different.

    There is a big difference between constructive criticism and just spilling negative emotions. A real hero doesn't blindly slay every person near him in a battle. A real hero knows when to stay his hand. And this can be quite difficult while lost in the fog of war and riding a huge adrenaline rush.

    Someone who stands up for FFXI should also know when to stay their hand and ignore the urges of their emotion. I know I've been guilty of ranting several times... I'm not perfect. But if you really do care about FFXI, find constructive ways to harness your negative emotions and use them for something positive. That's what it really means to stand up and fight.

    Keep in mind that if we create an environment which unanimously hates what SE is doing to the game, we create an environment which kills the game faster than anything the devs have done.
    (6)

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