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  1. #41
    Player kingfury's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Allegiance: Ancient Galkan Empire
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    1,308
    Character
    Kingfury
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    WAR Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by dragmagi View Post
    How about Weapon Masters for war? Gain full access to all currently known ws/ weapon types or go with the classic beserker bit with ga?
    ----------------
    lol ahhh memories /sulk
    If only you knew how much grief I got for that idea lol.
    (0)

  2. #42
    Player Yinnyth's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    839
    Character
    Yinnyth
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by kingfury View Post
    ---------------------
    I would definitely say skill would still have to be used by the player even if the stats were powerful. The best gear and weapons won't guarantee success for battle in FFXI (even the God mode Brew in Abyssea). So I wouldn't say that there's no downside or penalty, but rather access to very valuable stats to enable certain jobs to perform at an acceptable level beyond what has been available up to this point. The design is not to grant "brew-like" capabilities at all so battle strategy would still be apart of the equation.
    I'm not suggesting the game would become too easy should these changes occur. I'm also not saying that it would decrease the amount of skill involved in playing the game. I'm just pointing out that this would decrease the need for certain jobs.

    If whm melee is comparable to DDs, why have a drk who can't cast arise? Because that drk would also be boosted so he can tank? Then why have a pld when plds can't DD worth a crap? Because that pld would be given the ability to nuke? Then why bring a blm when pld can nuke and take a hit? Because that blm would be given the ability to give powerful buffs? Then why bring a brd when a brd can't nuke? Because brd would be given the ability to cast high-tier cures?

    Don't get me wrong, I like jobs to have a bit of diversity in what they can do, but not to the point where it starts to step on the toes of other jobs. Taking that too far makes it so it does not matter which job you pick because every job does the same stuff as every other job.
    (2)

  3. #43
    Player kingfury's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Allegiance: Ancient Galkan Empire
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    1,308
    Character
    Kingfury
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    WAR Lv 99
    Understandable, but you have to think about it for a sec; the moment FFXI introduced multiple DDs to the game past War and Mnk that "toe stepping" issue became a never ending reality. In essence, every single job that came after the base jobs (War, Mnk, Whm, Blm, Rdm, and Thf) was either a hybrid of those base job roles or simply another option to perform a similar task.

    Namely, DD, Support, Tanking, and tossing Magic of some sort is all we can do in terms of being effective towards any enemy within FFXI based on a party set up, so 14(soon to be 16) jobs later on top of the base 6 options is bound to cause that very same toe stepping regardless of any type of enabling the Devs offer us through gear or other means. Frankly, the two new jobs alone will step on toes and endanger future party invites for multiple jobs that do similar things (Rdm, Brd, Cor, Drk, Dnc, Sch, Nin, and Smn).

    I suppose my point is that enabling current jobs to do something a different way may be the best option for getting most bench bound jobs back in the party. I wouldn't ask for a WHM to out damage a DRK, but simply empower them to be more efficient at something they rarely get to do(even though if done properly they can be decent as is).
    (1)

  4. #44
    Player Rustic's Avatar
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    Dec 2012
    Posts
    468
    Character
    Rustic
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Demon6324236 View Post
    I was just saying that if you are saying it would ruin the feeling we are the last SCH, its not really accurate, because due to other players I never feel like I am the last SCH. As you said there is a plausible story explanation as to why some SCHs could still be around, they simply fled the mainlands. So there should be little problem with it happening. I took what you were saying as that it would ruin a players feel of being the last SCH if we found out there were more just an ocean away, I just wanted to say I could never personally feel that way because of other players.
    It wouldn't be the first case where a job survived elsewhere. Adoulin had it's own branch of Dragoons, separate from the San d'Orian line. Also, it could be reasonably posited that a "true" scholar is one that has mastered the grimorie (that is, finished up with the SCH storyline)- thus, you being the "first" to do so also means you are the "last" of the scholars.

    It'd be a nice show that at somepoint, there's an official "revival" of the job in the three nations/Jeuno, as it's pretty flippin' obvious that after the events with the Maws, the Scholar is definitely past being "extinct".
    (0)
    Old-time player, new-time character- Ragnarok server.

  5. #45
    Player Yinnyth's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    839
    Character
    Yinnyth
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by kingfury View Post
    Understandable, but you have to think about it for a sec; the moment FFXI introduced multiple DDs to the game past War and Mnk that "toe stepping" issue became a never ending reality. In essence, every single job that came after the base jobs (War, Mnk, Whm, Blm, Rdm, and Thf) was either a hybrid of those base job roles or simply another option to perform a similar task.
    Even the massive number of DDs available in the game are supposed to have slightly varying roles so that each excels in a different environment. Drgs are low enmity melees who specialize against dragons. Drks are high enmity melees who sacrifice their own safety for more damage and specialize against arcana. Sams build and spend TP more efficiently than any other job and specialize against demons. Rng does physical damage from a safe distance and gets more acc than any other job. Rune fencer will be able to safely deal damage in situations with even the most extreme amounts of magic damage.

    All that being said, you are correct. Jobs already overshadow other jobs. Some jobs get left completely behind, and which jobs those are change over time (except pup... pup has always been behind). But I would rather see us working towards a class system that gives each job their own distinctive niche instead of working away from it.

    We could still have a faction system certainly, but my suggestion would be more about specializing and focusing jobs towards the tasks they're already designed to do.

    So don't boost whm's DD abilities. Instead, make their cursna more accurate, give them a spell to remove amnesia, muddle, and charm, give them silena II to have a chance to remove mute, make their barstatus effects more effective, and give them erase II which removes 2 erasable effects. Turn whm into the undisputed king of removing and preventing status effects.

    Don't boost drk's tanking abilities, instead make them even more suicidal and fix their nukes so they're worth casting. Give them a JA like souleater for their nukes. Give them some MAB as a base trait. Give them a tiny bit of elemental alacrity and a ton of dark alacrity.
    (2)

  6. #46
    Player Merton9999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    528
    Character
    Mordru
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    SCH Lv 99
    Sorry but I like KingFury's approach more. In fact, I'd be happiest if you could duo everything in the game with any two jobs of your choice. That's far from his proposal, and certainly unpopular, but I would like it more. So what's the point of having a job system if they are all so similar functionally? For me the allure of a job system is more about lore, fashion and nomenclature than it is about function. But that's just me.

    Also, his original proposal suggested two paths - one to enhance the current function, one to branch off. You could have your Amnesna and potent Cursna for WHM in one specialization, maybe required for the toughest of fights, then switch to another faction in your MH (like you choose your subjob) for those times you want to add the melee prowess variety for a more casual or low-man event.
    (0)
    Last edited by Merton9999; 03-09-2013 at 10:19 AM.

  7. #47
    Player Yinnyth's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    839
    Character
    Yinnyth
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    And you are completely welcome to your belief of what you think would make the game better. Heck, after it got implemented, I might even learn to like it.

    But one of the big draws this game has always had for me... one of the things that has kept me playing as long as I have has always been the dynamics each job has, and how those dynamics play with each other. How we can combine these jobs to maximize our efficiency. If any job can fill any role, that aspect of the game is out the window. Defenestrated
    (2)

  8. #48
    Player kingfury's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Allegiance: Ancient Galkan Empire
    Posts
    1,308
    Character
    Kingfury
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    WAR Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Yinnyth View Post
    Even the massive number of DDs available in the game are supposed to have slightly varying roles so that each excels in a different environment. Drgs are low enmity melees who specialize against dragons. Drks are high enmity melees who sacrifice their own safety for more damage and specialize against arcana. Sams build and spend TP more efficiently than any other job and specialize against demons. Rng does physical damage from a safe distance and gets more acc than any other job. Rune fencer will be able to safely deal damage in situations with even the most extreme amounts of magic damage.

    All that being said, you are correct. Jobs already overshadow other jobs. Some jobs get left completely behind, and which jobs those are change over time (except pup... pup has always been behind). But I would rather see us working towards a class system that gives each job their own distinctive niche instead of working away from it.

    We could still have a faction system certainly, but my suggestion would be more about specializing and focusing jobs towards the tasks they're already designed to do.

    So don't boost whm's DD abilities. Instead, make their cursna more accurate, give them a spell to remove amnesia, muddle, and charm, give them silena II to have a chance to remove mute, make their barstatus effects more effective, and give them erase II which removes 2 erasable effects. Turn whm into the undisputed king of removing and preventing status effects.

    Don't boost drk's tanking abilities, instead make them even more suicidal and fix their nukes so they're worth casting. Give them a JA like souleater for their nukes. Give them some MAB as a base trait. Give them a tiny bit of elemental alacrity and a ton of dark alacrity.
    ----------------------
    True indeed /
    There would definitely be an elite faction for each job that would promote making native job roles more potent. Stats, gear , and weapons very much like your examples. There would also be the opposing elite factions for each job that would promote pushing their mediocre stats to higher more effective levels(nothing game breaking, but effective).

    The examples I used in the OP (the melee WHM and Defensive DRK) would be in no danger of fully replacing either a career DD or Tank in terms of a party invites, but could perhaps enjoy certain types of content they couldn't before on their preferred jobs.
    (1)
    Last edited by kingfury; 03-09-2013 at 01:26 AM.

  9. #49
    Player kingfury's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Allegiance: Ancient Galkan Empire
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    1,308
    Character
    Kingfury
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    WAR Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Merton9999 View Post
    Also, his original proposal suggested two paths - one to enhance the current function, one to branch off. You could have your Amnesna and potent Cursna for WHM in one specialization, maybe required for the toughest of fights, then switch to another faction in your MH (like you choose your subjob) for those times you want to do add the melee prowess variety for a more casual or low-man event.
    ------------------------
    Yepper, this was the approach. Thinking about it after reading your post, I would love to switch between factions similar to how we can switch from Merit points to Experience points in our Status menu to be honest. If there was only two faction options per job, it would simply be three options from the faction selection list:
    • Faction 1
    • Faction 2
    • Turn off Faction(s)
    (1)

  10. #50
    Player Tsukino_Kaji's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    4,029
    Character
    Tsukinokaji
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by kingfury View Post
    You forgot the add the nut shot.

    But on a more serious note, as sweet as this looks, I have to dissagree with it. Whm battle gear needs to involve plate.
    (0)

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