Enmity System Explanation and Planned Adjustments

[OmnysValefor]

Cure kits rightfully died a horrible death as the level when up (and their CE multiplier went down).

Please people, for the love of FFXI learn the actual mechanics behind the enmity system. People have already taken tons of their personal time and done all the hard work, you only need to read.

http://kanican.livejournal.com/tag/enmity%20table!

"Heal spam" has never been better then smacking sh1t to generated hate, notably CE. The only time it was ever useful was when the PLD was unbuffed or not engaged. If SE wants to create "real" tanking then their going to have to attack the core of the problem, there are no significant hate generating abilities in the game on a short enough timer to matter. Alter provoke (just example) to generate 500~1000 CE and then it will be a viable hate tool.

It was viable during certain parts of the game, particularly when the mob was invincible (or stoneskin) or PD'd? It was a helpful tool when kiting, just like using /nin ichi tool was. Cure kits were used by people who did know the enmity mechanics and why they did work, and when they didn't. PLD sucked against high defense mobs, besides SE's gift of Spirits Within, and much later, Atonement. Mobs could mitigate our offensive power, but how much we could heal for was all on us.

I loved the CE/VE system and that this game has the most complex (not "complicated") hate system of any game I've played. If you're good at it, you could watch it in action and understand exactly why the mob was doing what it was doing.

[sweetidealism]

With ninja itself in mind, we understand that it would be best to increase the enmity for ninjutsu.
With that said, we will be going a separate route of adjustment so that ninjas can control enmity better.

However, we've included ninjutsu in the scope of our adjustments due to the fact that red mages who use ninja as their support job could cause the same issues from the past to arise.



We will not be adjusting enmity on blue magic because we feel that blue mage is a job that can better withstand a beating in the event that they pull hate from the target.

The logic behind these two statements seem contradictory to me. Similar to blue mage, red mage is also very capable of withstanding a beating if they pull hate. Why, then, allow blue mage to potentially tank, but not red mage?

[Infidi]

SMN JAs might not generate emnity, but the damage done from the BPs are going to have to be given SOME amount of more emnity. When I can let Garuda auto attack for two rounds then fire off a BP:Rage and get hate from her from a simple Dia 2 there's gotta be something up? Maybe I'm just crazy? I've done Dia 2 and full round of buffing after a BP in the past and NEVER have gotten hate off my avatar. Of course that was in the past. :P Before update.

Camate, are there any plans to up the emnity of the damage generated from BP:Rage attacks, physical or magical? Or some form of emnity transfer to pet like BST has in snarl?

[Demon6324236]

The logic behind these two statements seem contradictory to me. Similar to blue mage, red mage is also very capable of withstanding a beating if they pull hate. Why, then, allow blue mage to potentially tank, but not red mage?

Cause BLU never did what RDM did, it never tanked like a badass or soloed tons of things, so years later we must suffer for our past success.

[Phafi]

Please people, for the love of FFXI learn the actual mechanics behind...

didn't you get mass quoted a bit back to be wrong in everything you stated?

[Lollerblades]

Wait what?! That whole SMN rubbish you posted is wrong Camate, last I checked when I use Blood Pacts I gain hate. So infanct unless my character is bugged, this happens for almost everyone else. You might want to look into it first before disregarding it!

[Yinnyth]

The logic behind these two statements seem contradictory to me. Similar to blue mage, red mage is also very capable of withstanding a beating if they pull hate. Why, then, allow blue mage to potentially tank, but not red mage?

If I'm not mistaken, the difference is that rdm would do it well. Far better than blu would. With access to stronger refresh than blu, massive fast cast bonuses, protect and shell V, phalanx, and self-cures, and utsusemi while subbed nin, rdm is nearly impossible to kill. Handing them hate tools that are more effective than what other jobs have would be irresponsible unless it is your goal to redefine rdm from "jack of all trades, master of none" to "TANK ALL THE THINGS!!"

That being said, looking at the enmity values for ninjutsu (80CE,240VE for debuffs and 1CE,300VE for utsu), I don't see what's so scary about rdm spamming these things. Even with chainspell on, it takes about 3 seconds to cast a spell(accounting for animation delay before you can take another action), and the 300VE from utsu would be gone in 5 seconds.

[hideka]

Blood Pacts, Retreat, and Release do not generate enmity, and as such were not included in the list.

I officially call BS. i cannot tell you the number of times ive used retreat AFTER THE AVATAR HAS HIT THE MONSTER, with ZERO prior enmity on my part, and retreat has caused the monster to target me. same with blood pacts wards. ive sent the avatar in, popped BP Ward, and the monster comes flying my way. methinks you need to research this. i think you have these abilities confused with assault, release and avatars favor.

[hideka]

What causes a monster to turn to face me when I use them then?

because he hasnt done the proper research. hes confused with release, Avatars favor, and Assault

[Hashmalum]

The fact that the dev team literally forgot that NIN is even considered a tank in their mad stampede to make sure that RDM could never, ever do anything remotely useful ever again tells me all I need to know about the future of job balance in this game--namely that it doesn't have one. I just unsubscribed. To everyone who's sticking around: good luck, you'll need it.