Enmity System Explanation and Planned Adjustments

[Camate]

Greetings everyone,

I think this may have been mt'ed...I think it should read:

When this happens, the target will go after the summoner.

You are correct, sir. Sorry about that! I've corrected my post.

Now then…

A lot of you have been commenting about the point made yesterday that mentioned “there are times when it would be best for avatars not to take hate during party battles,” so I wanted to give a little more insight and explanation for the development team’s reasoning behind this.

In the event that we add enmity to avatars, there may be situations that occur where executing a Blood Pact will cause the avatar to pull hate and make the monster face the opposite direction from the tank, or turn in a way that would be detrimental to the backline jobs. In order to avoid any unwanted movement of the target when executing Blood Pacts, the development team decided to go with the approach mentioned yesterday, so that Blood Pacts could be used without worrying about this.

Finally, I’d like to just reiterate the main points again.

• The issue we would like to remedy
  In the case that the avatar's enmity has a minimum value of 1 for both non-volatile and volatile enmity, when executing a Blood Pact, the summoner will receive +1 to their non-volatile enmity, making a total of 2 non-volatile and 1 volatile enmity. When this happens, the target will go after the summoner.
  
  
• Planned adjustment to remedy the issue
  When the summoner has enmity, they will not receive +1 to non-volatile enmity when executing a Blood Pact. (The +1 to non-volatile enmity will only occur when the summoner's enmity value is 0.)

[Alhanelem]

In the event that we add enmity to avatars, there may be situations that occur where executing a Blood Pact will cause the avatar to pull hate and make the monster face the opposite direction from the tank, or turn in a way that would be detrimental to the backline jobs. In order to avoid any unwanted movement of the target when executing Blood Pacts, the development team decided to go with the approach mentioned yesterday, so that Blood Pacts could be used without worrying about this.

I can understand this (and this was a notable problem back in the days of Fafnir and some of the old HNMs) but wouldn't it make a lot more sense to just make the change and ask for players to be more careful about their blood pact timing and positioning? Because there was a time (as I mentioned) where this was a common issue, but it could be avoided with skillful play.

The tweak you're describing is certainly a welcome change, but the real problem right now is just how little enmity avatars seem to be generating, even with really powerful attacks. I used to be able to do a shattersoul with the empyrean staff after a good predator claws and not take hate til the next BP was ready. Now even very little things like enhancing magic and smaller cures can sometimes pull hate.

[Trumpy]

way to be insulting savael

[Motenten]

I can understand this (and this was a notable problem back in the days of Fafnir and some of the old HNMs) but wouldn't it make a lot more sense to just make the change and ask for players to be more careful about their blood pact timing and positioning? Because there was a time (as I mentioned) where this was a common issue, but it could be avoided with skillful play.

If it was just the player, adjusting the timing and position would be easy. But avatars (or any pet) tend to not be quite so easily adjusted; their pathing isn't exactly the greatest. To get the avatar exactly to where you want it, the smn would have to run into the fight and around the mob til they found just the right spot before issuing the assault order, which wastes time and needlessly puts the smn in the line of fire.

So I can understand where that's not the 'solution' that they'd want to offer players.

[Tennotsukai]

I can understand this (and this was a notable problem back in the days of Fafnir and some of the old HNMs) but wouldn't it make a lot more sense to just make the change and ask for players to be more careful about their blood pact timing and positioning? Because there was a time (as I mentioned) where this was a common issue, but it could be avoided with skillful play.

The tweak you're describing is certainly a welcome change, but the real problem right now is just how little enmity avatars seem to be generating, even with really powerful attacks. I used to be able to do a shattersoul with the empyrean staff after a good predator claws and not take hate til the next BP was ready. Now even very little things like enhancing magic and smaller cures can sometimes pull hate.

This is very true to what summoners are currently dealing with. Perhaps, a new ja?

[Tennotsukai]

way to be insulting savael

he is always this way, i believe.

[Areayea]

THANK YOU CAMATE, that's a great adjustment, however i still do believe that a "Snarl" type job ability for summoners would be very useful, as for the turning, back in the day (like 07~) when Hydra/Cerberus/Khimera were the kings, I as a good smn, used to be able to know how the avatar was going to map out it's path, so I made sure that it was at the hydra's feet (as to not set off serpentine tail), and at the correct feet of the head I was attacking, so that it would fall off with predator claws. for wyrms, it was much simpler because it was easier to position, my point is Matsui wants to revive skillful play, I think that the addition to that job ability would make career summoners have to use skillful play once again.

[Acacia]

The problem with SMN is not that job abilities generate enmity, it has always been that way. Players get boosts to there defense and attack with equipment but pets get almost none (+5~15 atk/def makes no difference at level 99). The problem is that avatars are bleeding enmity faster then they can generate it and there is no way to boosts their defense, attack or attributes in order to mitigate this problem. Even the enmity generated by a 2.5k dmg Heavenly Strike will be gone within a few hits from the monster.

Why is it that players got some very powerful new weapons and armor to fit these new enmity changes but pet jobs have almost no armor that boosts atk/def of their pet? Not to mention there is NO armor at all that gives any attribute boosts to pets.

[Vinedrai]

it is very unlikely for an avatar to pull hate unless the party is wiping (or plain sucks) to begin with and when that happens, all the backline jobs would have to reposition themselves anyway so that the avatar(s) can hold the mob as safely as possible at least briefly while the party is recovering. also, if you use a BP that would pull that much hate in a bad moment and die or cause the deaths of backline, then it is totally your fault and you should blame yourself before the enmity system...

[Ophannus]

Why is it that players got some very powerful new weapons and armor to fit these new enmity changes but pet jobs have almost no armor that boosts atk/def of their pet? Not to mention there is NO armor at all that gives any attribute boosts to pets.

The defense/attack/survivability of a pet is commensurate with how 'cheap' they are.

BST pets have the most longevity because they cost gil and have a 5min recast. Avatars have the least longevity/hp because they are throw-away pets, they can be resummoned any time.