Enough is enough

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

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[Yinnyth]

Before players will truly respond in a civil way we must be shown we are going to be treated with some respect to our opinion and ideas.

Please point me to any response from them which was half as vitriolic as we are to one another. We disrespect each other, the devs, the mods, and the GMs much more than they disrespect us.

Just because 10 supported ideas don't get implemented doesn't mean that being polite isn't your best bet. We got cheese sammiches. We got pulse cells. We got Dynamis changes (even though I oppose the hell out of them). After years of being requested, we got neo Salvage. Many things aren't the way you want them to be, however. Most people tell themselves "A MONKEY could do it better!" Then hire yourself a team of monkeys and make your own extremely popular MMO.

In a game with tens of thousands of players, all of whom have different ideas of what's good and what's bad, you should not be offended and angry when your idea does not get accepted anymore than you get offended when you don't win the lottery.

That is how I think this will turn out eventually, we are all shouting at SE, telling them what we think, at first, we are calm, then we get a bit loud, then we start getting angry, even insulting, and after some time, we will give up, and either deal with it, or leave.

There were people shouting at SE since before these forums. I was one of them. I've calmed down a bit since then. Nothing has changed in the way SE deals with things. The only thing that has changed is our expectations. Mine have lowered. Other people on these forums have raised their expectations.

The devs don't need crusaders to protect their widdle feelings from meany-weany posters. They have the delete button.

Honestly, does telling an angry person to calm down ever work? I think that you all know that you aren't doing anything but fanning the flames. Shame on you.

The hate-mongering lynch mob doesn't need protection either.

[Alpheus]

I came into this thread expecting show-tunes. I'm slightly disappointed.

[Demon6324236]

Please point me to any response from them which was half as vitriolic as we are to one another. We disrespect each other, the devs, the mods, and the GMs much more than they disrespect us.

I personally would rather someone insult me, than flat out ignore me. I feel thats what SE does on a constant basis, ignore us. You listed changes we got, but many are things we did not ask for. We asked for VW drop rates to be fixed or to allow us to share drops, they have us a half assed version of that by allowing only the rarest of items to be shared, and originally in such a terrible way it would have NEVER been used. Only after we complained long enough did they change it, and even now, its still not nearly what we asked for or really needed. VW drops are still horrid, some items are still almost unobtainable, like Ephemeron, and we never got a real fix for it. We were ignored on many other subjects as well. But one way they definitely disrespect us, is when they give us 'reasons' something we ask for can not be done when the reason itself lacks any basic reasoning to it. Like the RDM SP, its basically Elemental Seal-1, anyone who knows the function of the JA can tell you thats basically what it is, but on a much longer timer, yet SE argues its useful and nothing like Elemental Seal.

I think its massivly disrespectful that the players opinions are often ignored even now, when we are being asked specifically what we want. I also think its disrespectful that a large majority of posts made on these forums in any non-JP area are really JP responces just translated into a different languages thread. We almost never get a unique responce to a question over in the english forums, almost everything is just translated from the JP forums and sent to us via a rep, but our actual questions mean nothing, because we are not asking on the JP forums.

SE does not come right out and insult us, no, but they do not treat us as though our opinions truly matter, or at least, I have never had mine treated as if it did. The OP lists a few different things the player base has asked for, for a very long time, and yet we are either denied or we are simply ignored when the question arises.

[FrankReynolds]

The hate-mongering lynch mob doesn't need protection either.

Nobody said they did. I was simply pointing out that anyone who doesn't work for SE really has no reason to be telling people what is and isn't proper etiquette for posting here. It's clear to me, the OP and probably everyone else that those people really have nothing to add and are just here to stir up the crap.

"I don't like your tone..." is a BS argument. No matter who you are. This may be a video game forum, but all the people using it (including the SE staff) are capable of ignoring people and things that bother them like adults.


If the OP had posted explicit photos, offensive memes, racial slurs, personal attacks or some other form of offensive material, this thread would have been shut down immediately. The fact of the matter is that a lot of what he said was spot on whether you like it or not and using his "tone" or "demeanor" as an argument against that is a cheap tactic that will never achieve anything other than causing people to post more of that.

There are only two kinds of people who shout "Stop acting like a baby!!!" at a screaming baby. Stupid people... and people who like making babies scream. Decent people either try to calm the baby or allow it the space to let of some steam.

Truth be told, the OP made a lot of very valid points. I agree that his tone was somewhat poor, but it's not like he's addressing someone who has done a lot to garner his respect. Making an awesome game doesn't mean that you are free of the the burden of being respectful to your customers. While many of the things we discuss on these boards simply cannot be done, that does not excuse the way that they have been handled.

It's fine to do whatever you want with your business, game etc., but if you ask people for their opinions and then allow them to post them in a public forum where everyone can see the results, then you owe them the respect of explaining your decisions at the very least. Asking people for their opinions just so that you can constantly ignore them and / or purposely do the opposite is a dick move no matter what culture you are from and you should expect no less than aggressiveness in response to that type of behavior.

Don't believe me? Try it in your personal life. Ask anybody that you are with what they want to do, where they want to go, or what they want to eat and then do what you know will piss them off the most without any explanation or even a response to their complaints and see how long it takes to end up lonely and bruised.

TLDR; SE is a corporation. Not a person. I don't care what the courts say. Their employees owe it to their shareholders and their customers to address the issues at hand, Not the attitude with which the issues are presented.

[Yinnyth]

I had a huge wall of text response for both of you which I just deleted because I knew it wouldn't be read. We're going to have to do this one topic at a time, so I'll let you pick the topic if you like. What irritates you the most about the devs of FFXI, and why?

Edit: I'll start us off with something. The Grind. We grind for exp. We grind for loot. We grind countless failures for a single success on some events (neo nyzul). We grind quests. We grind gil. The whole game feels like a grind.

Because the whole game is a grind. If you gear down the grind of the game too much, players like me wind up with nothing to do.

-=Ridculous grinds (Mythic Weapons, Skill ups) an gil = power (Relic Weapons) should have also been addressed.
-=Empy weapon system is still vulnerable to gil = power it still involves groups of players of 2-6 (Most of the time) to play together which this game doesn't really place high on the priority system any more.

I have never bought gil. I have never bought ancient currency. I have never bought empy items. I have never bought umbral marrow. I'm simply too poor IRL to even consider spending money on that kind of crap. Yet I have a level 99 gjallarhorn and 3 empies.

The whole game is a grind, and once you reach the top of the grind, there's nothing left to do. If you can already see that the game is a grind considering how low you are on the wheel, then you may as well give up now because you'll never enjoy it. I'm not saying this to be rude, this is simply the nature of RPGs. Once you start asking yourself "why am I grinding this?", it's beyond time to stop.

[Darrt]

Somehow a common theme of emotions came about in reference to my OP as if i were sitting here foaming at the mouth while i typed it up. Lets look at this for a minute. You read my post, think it is emo and then are so bothered by it that you post a reply just to point out that i am being emo, in turn, being emo yourself. The point? Why bother posting?

This isn't a video blog like that terribad blonde chick that plagues the ffxiah "pics that make you lol" thread. I cannot convey emotions through text and those of you claiming I am just being emo are really only showing that you have nothing substantial to refute yet still feel the need to rush to SE's defense.

Again, i did not make this thread in the intent of posting issues i have with the game and then trying to formulate solutions that will be ignored or ignored. The point was to express my distaste for SE's lack of good customer service. As one poster pointed out, if you have 1 person yelling at you, so what ignore and move on. If you have a group of people yelling at you, something is wrong. Clearly is someone likes the OP that shows they feel that SE needs to improve their customer service, and currently 64 other people feel the same way. Yes that's a small margin compared to the playerbase as a whole, but seeing the small amount of people that use this forum, i'll take it.

As another poster pointed out, this game is old. I started this game as a senior in high school. Every second of my free time was used on FFXI. Once i graduated i enlisted in the USAF, got married and found i don't have the time needed for this grind (started in 2006, quit in 2008). Yes without the grind people will quickly lose interest and move on, however, SE does not advertise this game at all. If i did not subscribe to PSN magazine back in the day i would have never known this game existed. Because of this, they are not really bringing in any new players and thus, their playerbase is in similar situations to mine. We have real life commitments and cannot dedicate the same amount of time to this game that we could when we were kids. I quit this game in 2008 because of the grind, but still checked in on updates and whatnot over the years.

Don't get me wrong, i believe SE is somewhat in the right direction with content. Most events are roughly an hour which is perfectly fine. In fact when i saw SE was making the game more casual friendly i decided to return (2012) Unfortunately the sheer difficulty of things like neo-nyzul and legion means most players will never even attempt them because of the grind to make yourself effective in these events.

As another poster pointed out, i just need to find a group of people willing to do these events. This is a silly thing to post because it implies that i came here to complain that i can't solo it on my drg/rdm. This is not the case at all. I really enjoy the group aspect of this game and my fondest memories are clearing CoP with my LS friends when it was level capped (RIP EnlightenedSouls, Leviathan server).

The problem is that, as i already stated in another post, i am currently stationed in Korea and while i am online it is roughtly 2-3 AM back in the states. I've tried on multiple occasions to shout for a group for things, even on saturday and sunday when i can be on with the NA folk again. Unfortunately either no one is interested in anything besides VW or no one will help because nothing is really in it for them, or, and this one is my favorite, they have no interest in the storyline and have no missions completed to even be able to access the content (limbus / salvage). Honestly it seems like people just pay merc shells to get things done for them nowadays, which i do not have the gil to afford their outrageous prices.

I saw SE made a thread about what items people want changed. I think that's awesome and i hope it is really successful. Maybe it will inspire some other "what do you want" type threads. I know what i want. More quests like apocalypse nigh. i was so ecstatic when i finished CoP that i could finally get an ethereal earring. Now if only SE would add something like that for the rest of the mission lines. If they did i would hope they would make the reward something other than a ring / earring. I want a badass neck, waist or back piece.

But i know that there is a slim chance of that happening so i will just end with this: As another poster said, i need to put my money where my mouth (fingers) are, and indeed i shall. If you enjoy ffxi the way it is, that's great. I'm really happy for you and imma let you finish, but SE will not be receiving my 14 dollars a month for a while / ever. Depending on how SoA turns out i will probably return in 3 years when they finally finish it. Good luck to all of you who remain in Van'a'diel and whatever you are working towards.

tldr;
making a post calling me emo is redundant and hypocritical
SE is sort of on the right track with content and taking steps towards better customer service
SE needs to advertise this game
If you like this game the way it is that's great and imma let you finish
I am cancelling my content ID
See you in 3 years when SoA is finished

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

I came into this thread expecting show-tunes. I'm slightly disappointed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTTPwvGC0rY

[Alhanelem]

How do I ignore this poster?

I would agree that fixes/changes come far to slow for a game that has more the made enough money to support a much faster change/fix system. We pay to play a game, well I wouldn't expect my money to get put 100% back into the game, I do expect it to show more then the 1% we get.

-=PoL shouldn't even exsist anymore, the update method is slow and prone to failure. Why can't steam update FFXI for me?
-=The job balance well has always been pretty terrible,but it is not getting better. Too many jobs are not worth your time playing. You can play what you enjoy, an all the power to you. Somewhere down the line though it would be nice to see job diversity/demand get a bit closer.
-=Interface lag should have been dealt with so long ago it hurts to think about it.
-=Ridculous grinds (Mythic Weapons, Skill ups) an gil = power (Relic Weapons) should have also been addressed.
-=Empy weapon system is still vulnerable to gil = power it still involves groups of players of 2-6 (Most of the time) to play together which this game doesn't really place high on the priority system any more.

Some changes have been great, leveling speed increase, warps galore, ability to play more then 2 jobs end game without a crazy high invest of time/gil, removing the level cap for certain quest/fights. Now its time for the rest of the game to catch up.

Believe me if you're going to react that nastily to a perfectly reasonable post, I don't want to read what you have to say either.

You seem to have missed the point- Being rude and nasty doesn't get results. i totallly agree that improvements are needed. Speaking with your wallet is a lot more effective than posting "Enough is Enough! I'm totally going to stamp my foot and not really do anything to help the situation but start complaining about it a little bit more!"

The community team doesn't respond to nasty provocative threads and posts. If they respond to anything, it's posts that are being thoughtful and constructive. If you're going to ignore list me for that, that's just silly- if someone is truly so dissatisfied with the game, then they should speak with their wallet and stop paying SE.

Before players will truly respond in a civil way we must be shown we are going to be treated with some respect to our opinion and ideas.

I haven't seen any instances where the community team hasn't treated people with respect for their opinions and ideas.

[StingRay104]

I think the general feeling of upset over this game stems from the fact that we still have very little interaction with the dev team. I would welcome an opportunity to discuss certain matters with the dev team. For instance I think that changing twilight scythe is a mistake, and would love to hear their opinion on why it should be changed.

As for the dev team never listens to us aspect, I do feel that way on several issues, but it isn't always the case. Remember DRKs new ability that would decrease tp in exchange for increased damage, kinda like a souleater that eats tp. Well the DRK community hated that idea, and it was changed to scarlet delirium, which the DRK community hated even more as it is almost completely useless. Even at it's highest effect, its effectiveness is very minimal. Yet the dev team still has yet to address the many things wrong with this ability.

Several jobs have been ignored for very long periods of time, for instance SMN. New abilities and avatars, as well as a complete redesign of the job have been asked for since late 2004, and although some things were down SMN is still miles behind. It's been 2 years since the promised new avatars, and still nothing but a fancy video of basic walking.

I think the aspect that aggravates me the most is that there is so much in game that needs to be fixed, such as ws's, and yet all I ever see when I open up the forums is mog house decoration contest, or valentines day event, or how about christmas and new years events, and the stolen cookie chronicles or whatever it is called. Are these things so important that they are the only things we get on a monthly basis? Our funds are paying for these instead of necessary changes that need to be implemented to the game. How about the fact that instead of having direct interaction with the player base, we get silly little contests instead. Personally I don't take part in these things, and it is obvious that I'm not very fond of them, however in the past I tolerated them because we at least got updates of substance. Now we don't even get that much, our updates are at around the same rate as before and about a quarter of the content. I know skeleton crew, priorities are important, I get this but it doesn't change the fact that the user base is unhappy.

I for one have always wondered what it is the GM's do, as every time we ask them to do something they say no. Then when we say things like we can't beat AV for 5 years and what do we get in return......TOO BAD. I want interaction with the devs, I want frequent flow of communication with them, and by frequent I mean 4 times a week not 4 times a year. I want them to understand my thoughts, and I want to understand theirs. If they would just step up to the plate we could make this game so much better together.

Finally I want to say this is probably the 1000th time this request has been made so lets hope this time they will take notice. WE WANT DIRECT COMMUNICATION ON A FREQUENT BASIS WITH THE DEV TEAM SO THAT TOGETHER WE CAN MAKE THIS GAME EVEN BETTER!!!