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  1. #21
    Player Economizer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,397
    Character
    Thelaughingman
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Catmato View Post
    Also, since the word "casual" seems to have gained a negative connotation lately, I use the word "hobbyist" instead. I use it to refer to someone like myself who likes and promotes the ideas of MeleeWHM, but doesn't revolve their character around it.
    When I think of casual, I don't really imagine someone capable of really doing White Mage melee.

    I think of someone who bought all their gear off the AH, maybe has a Rajas Ring because whatever, but didn't spend 1M+ on anything for melee, especially if it wasn't a weapon.

    If you're lucky they're wearing NQ Blessed gear, wturban, and a Swift, or if they're really lucky, a Goading belt. They'll often have something terrible like a Robur Mace or worse, and more likely then not they won't be wearing Blessed. That's what most other meleeWHM look like to me.

    I know not everyone will have a huge budget, I know I certainly don't. But I would hope anyone looking to get clerical make sure to hammer out some justice for the cause and leave some dents, not just leave dings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catmato View Post
    You're saying Solace is the front-line stance, but then it seems like you go on to prove that Misery is more fit for it. All four of the spells benefited by Misery depend on being next to the mob. I see your rationale, but I still only see being on the frontline benefiting barspells, which I'll admit can be huge, especially with tactical Sacrosanctity.
    From what they gave us, Solace is definitely geared more towards healing since it entirely rewards healing no matter where you stand. Misery was a little more misplaced out the gate, to put it lightly, it rewards you for standing close to a mob, to put it bluntly, it rewards you for getting hit.

    So of course I'd define Misery as frontline based on that, but I'd go on to say that Solace rewards the player better in a frontline based environment most of the time.

    Should this be the case? Well, that's not the rhetoric I was going for, but I'm not going to be forcing conclusions so hard when soliciting feedback.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catmato View Post
    I guess I suggested delay reduction because it would be more likely to get than JA haste. Typically when I'm swinging a club, I only have 40% haste, somewhat rarely any Dual Wield and/or Haste Samba. While my suggestion wouldn't help the diehard MeleeWHM or those in ideal situations, it would be a decent boost to a hobbyist MeleeWHM or those who may not have planned to break out the club.
    Quote Originally Posted by Catmato View Post
    I'll take any boost we can get, especially if it's a front-line boost. I love the fact that there are others who see a Misery boost the same way I do. Although, from my perspective, my suggestion would give me a moderate boost, but from your perspective is almost completely useless.
    I'd rather place my dreams in the unlikely then the terrible.

    Delay reduction doesn't stop in the rare case of you getting capped Haste. Since Misery is a stanced ability, the drawback is not using Solace, so there shouldn't be additional drawbacks.

    Fencer isn't totally bad despite not being a replacement for DW. But why give TP bonus and critical hit rate under such strict conditions when you could just hand it out to White Mages under Misery in general?

    -

    Again I ask myself and others to explain what Misery is all about. It certainly seems to be a JA that rewards the player for getting hit, or maybe standing in the action. What fits that? Is there something that could fit that to give us what we want? Or does it need a reword? I think it's a hard thing to answer very well.
    (1)

  2. #22
    Player Stan64's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    52
    Character
    Goshiwoo
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Since someone told me stal is the way to go to avoid blinking I tried it out, and now I used it for a while. Even though it's handy and you avoid blinking it raises a couple of other problems.

    1. You can't see on your screen where your target is. There is no arrow above the player so if you need to find someone fast to cure him I hope you know exactly where he went. Is he on the other side of the boss and you need to go closer? Or is he back at the entrance and you are just wasting your time? Good luck and have fun.

    2. You can target people who aren't really close. They can be anywhere in the zone and out of healing distance and you still can select them thinking that maybe you are just on cool down and try to cure a couple of times until the lagging battle log shows you that he isn't even close. You lost time and neglected someone else who maybe died in the process.

    3. If you need to rotate parties or stand outside of party to heal all your macros are shit. Easily solved by having a identical macro set with <t>. But hey, really?

    It still is better though, but without blinking there would be no problems at all.
    (1)

  3. #23
    Player Dekusuta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    143
    Character
    Dekusutaa
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Can't have everything being asked as SE is unlikely to give us everything. If we get Banish buffed, our healing will definately suffer.

    If you we Afflatus Misery Buffed, healing will also suffer. Misery IMHO is a good stance for the DD WHM to be on. The Auspice buff is useful.

    I'd much rather we get spells/abilities that are complementary to our healing instead of more toys. Cautionary tale here is Red Mages. Once an indispensible job, it was hijacked by DD Red Mages asking for DD centric Job abilities. SE gave it to them to the detriment of their enfeebling. And now, Geomancer is getting all the new enfeebles.

    I'm not sure if the -ra spells can be fixed so that the WHM doesn't have to rush it. SE seems to have decided it is part of our job description to do so, given the buff provided to Cura with Misery active.

    But I absolutely agree that the Barstatus buffs needs to be revised so that the connection between having the spell active and resists/partial resists is more clear.

    As a WHM, a big problem with our spells is DDs won't notice them half the time or what we're doing won't be obvious.
    (0)

  4. #24
    Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ru'Lude Gardens!
    Posts
    4,310
    Quote Originally Posted by Dekusuta View Post
    I'd much rather we get spells/abilities that are complementary to our healing instead of more toys. Cautionary tale here is Red Mages. Once an indispensible job, it was hijacked by DD Red Mages asking for DD centric Job abilities. SE gave it to them to the detriment of their enfeebling. And now, Geomancer is getting all the new enfeebles.
    You do realize that the only melee focused Job Ability we have ever gotten on RDM was Composure right? Besides that there is Temper but it came after RDM died out, where melee is a part of the job and we simply asked them to support it a bit more. As for meleeing on WHM, I personally thing WHM can melee fine right now, its not a better DD than most jobs, its one of the worst, but its the healer, fighting is a side activity, not a priority, so it shouldn't be expected to be amazing.
    (1)

  5. #25
    Player Dekusuta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    143
    Character
    Dekusutaa
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Demon6324236 View Post
    You do realize that the only melee focused Job Ability we have ever gotten on RDM was Composure right? Besides that there is Temper but it came after RDM died out, where melee is a part of the job and we simply asked them to support it a bit more. As for meleeing on WHM, I personally thing WHM can melee fine right now, its not a better DD than most jobs, its one of the worst, but its the healer, fighting is a side activity, not a priority, so it shouldn't be expected to be amazing.
    Composure, tier2 enspells, Temper. Imagine if Temper was instead a major enfeeble class of spells and caused a Terror effect, or amnesiased NMs. RDM would be significantly more relevant for end-game content.

    But yeah, this was 06/07 right around Aht Urghan and right before WotG, before Blus came into their own as the true melee mage, before Abyssea and before FFXI Forums was a thing and SE was still sort of sanctioning Allakhazam's forums plus a few others as semi-official places to get feedback.

    There was definately a push by a hardcore of Red Mage players then for DD abilities. I pointed it out then it would be better to have enfeebling spells, but was karma bombed for it.

    Glad RDM wasn't my main. I do still greatly enjoy the job tho, for its versatility.
    (0)

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