DRk Sub will save DRG?

[Babekeke]

DRG/DRK is terribad. Don't forget it's a 3min duration versus hasso which never wears off. Also we'd lose Seigan and our 5hit builds are ruined. The only way /DRK would work for DRG is if they graciously give DRG 2 tiers of Store TP(wouldn't mind since our traits are lacking)

SAM/DRK is gonna be stupidly broken. 3 forms of stun, more attack, 25% attack speed...

More attack from JT, but less attack during the 3 mins of LR instead of Berserk.

It depends what you're fighting and whether you're constantly engaged for more than 3 mins.

And don't forget that the big clincher here is added versatility from the multi-purpose wyvern. OK so my HP has to drop to ~600 instead of ~900 to activate breath, but that's still not the end of the world.

[Ophannus]

More attack from JT, but less attack during the 3 mins of LR instead of Berserk.

It depends what you're fighting and whether you're constantly engaged for more than 3 mins.

And don't forget that the big clincher here is added versatility from the multi-purpose wyvern. OK so my HP has to drop to ~600 instead of ~900 to activate breath, but that's still not the end of the world.

I can't tell if your post is sarcastic or not because for one, we don't get any added attack from JT because we get Attack Bonus II at 91. Secondly, Berserk should not be brought up in this argument because /WAR has no value for DRG compared to /SAM unless we're talking about VW, where Meditate and Store TP are rendered useless due to Atmacites/Regain/Wing spam and where Seigan is useless due to Fanatic's. Maybe for soloing 75 content, I could see /DRK having some novelty, but really, it doesn't compete very much. For endgame /DRK would pretty much never be used because we would have no defense at all, seigan is extremely valuable to us, and don't forget we'd lose our 5 hit if we're /DRK which weakens our DoT. 15% Haste for 3 minutes with 2 minutes of no haste during cooldown is vastly inferior to 10% haste that never wears off. Even if the fight is a 3minute one like ADL or something, you'd lose out on your 5 hit and probably come about roughly even to /SAM maybe due to fewer WS from no meditate/Sekkanoki. This will be even more prominent once they nerf Embrava's TP Regain, which will give the edge to /SAM for more WS rather than how it was previously where everyone had 300% from Embrava. Last Resort can also be Dispelled, at least Hasso is a 60 second recast and lasts for 2 hours. There's just no way /DRK would out damage /SAM really, /SAM offers more survivability, better traits, better job abilities and more sustainability in the long run. Last Resort/Souleater can't hold a candle to Hasso/Seigan/Third Eye/Meditate/Sekkanoki/Store TP.

/RDM is probably a better solo sub actually since Haste is a 15% bonus and you get 15% attack bonus by Dia IIing your target, also nets you Shell II/Protect III, enspells and Ice Spikes. /DRK is and always will be trash.

[hiko]

I can't tell if your post is sarcastic or not because for one, we don't get any added attack from JT because we get Attack Bonus II at 91. Secondly, Berserk should not be brought up in this argument because /WAR has no value for DRG compared to /SAM unless we're talking about VW, where Meditate and Store TP are rendered useless due to Atmacites/Regain/Wing spam and where Seigan is useless due to Fanatic's. Maybe for soloing 75 content, I could see /DRK having some novelty, but really, it doesn't compete very much. For endgame /DRK would pretty much never be used because we would have no defense at all, seigan is extremely valuable to us, and don't forget we'd lose our 5 hit if we're /DRK which weakens our DoT. 15% Haste for 3 minutes with 2 minutes of no haste during cooldown is vastly inferior to 10% haste that never wears off. Even if the fight is a 3minute one like ADL or something, you'd lose out on your 5 hit and probably come about roughly even to /SAM maybe due to fewer WS from no meditate/Sekkanoki. This will be even more prominent once they nerf Embrava's TP Regain, which will give the edge to /SAM for more WS rather than how it was previously where everyone had 300% from Embrava. Last Resort can also be Dispelled, at least Hasso is a 60 second recast and lasts for 2 hours. There's just no way /DRK would out damage /SAM really, /SAM offers more survivability, better traits, better job abilities and more sustainability in the long run. Last Resort/Souleater can't hold a candle to Hasso/Seigan/Third Eye/Meditate/Sekkanoki/Store TP.

/RDM is probably a better solo sub actually since Haste is a 15% bonus and you get 15% attack bonus by Dia IIing your target, also nets you Shell II/Protect III, enspells and Ice Spikes. /DRK is and always will be trash.

i think his post was about

SAM/DRK is gonna be stupidly broken. 3 forms of stun, more attack, 25% attack speed...

sam get less attack, loose DA, get 12.5% haste that is useless in magic capped fight because they already cap total DR.
only use is low man (no brd) or to stay haste capped while under seigan.

and DRG/DRK offer hybrid wyvern

[Ophannus]

No he was talking about DRG/DRK, not my reference to SAM/DRK because he goes on to say in that same post:

And don't forget that the big clincher here is added versatility from the multi-purpose wyvern. OK so my HP has to drop to ~600 instead of ~900 to activate breath, but that's still not the end of the world.

I stand by my flame.

[Babekeke]

Yes, I was talking about DRG/DRK. I actually didn't realise that we got att bonus 2 at 91, so I recall that statement.

However in your 'flame' you say:

Secondly, Berserk should not be brought up in this argument because /WAR has no value for DRG compared to /SAM unless we're talking about VW, where Meditate and Store TP are rendered useless due to Atmacites/Regain/Wing spam and where Seigan is useless due to Fanatic's.

It's as if you think noone even does VW anymore. They do, so it's still a valid argument, and /DRK WILL be an option for VW.

Next you say:

Even if the fight is a 3minute one like ADL or something, you'd lose out on your 5 hit and probably come about roughly even to /SAM maybe due to fewer WS from no meditate/Sekkanoki.

Which is wrong. With the OAT lance that you rave about, you can easily get 45 STP in gear for your 5-hit if you have phorcy's head and legs. The only issue is that they would have to be equipped for jumps, losing out on the other buffs from the gear you would have equipped (particularly 10% crit damage from emp +2 legs).

However, in the situations where you COULD use /DRK (fanatics or perfect defense scenarios, or soloing) you can use souleater to boost your damage, and just cast poison (stone after update) to have your wyvern keep topping your HP up every time it dips below (in my case, as I said in my earlier post) ~600 HP.

Maybe you're not prepared to accept that it will have any viable use, and that's fine, each to their own. I will at least be giving it a go, and decide once the changes have been released.

[Ophannus]

The crux of my argument is that no matter how you slice it, /DRK won't out damage /SAM in any place except VW and even in VW, /WAR is probably better since you're spamming wings for TP and have Regain so your haste doesn't matter too much.

[Babekeke]

The crux of my argument is that no matter how you slice it, /DRK won't out damage /SAM in any place except VW and even in VW, /WAR is probably better since you're spamming wings for TP and have Regain so your haste doesn't matter too much.

In this case, you are quite possibly correct. Until we can parse /war vs /drk in VW we can only speculate. However, in a low-man situation, where you have haste from a mage, but are paired with 1 or more other DDs that are taking more damage than you, your /drk mutli-purpose wyvern helps out with healing, whilst not damaging your output like /rdm /sch /blu or /whm would.

[Jaall]

It all depends on other changes that SE are going to introduce, if any that would specifically help DRG such as tier 3 merits. For example, if they gave us a concept that was brought up in a different post and gave us save TP as a job trait, we would gain a lot more from changing to a different sub. We could also get some sort of ability that would allow for 2 mins of haste to compensate for the down time on LR. Very unlikely I know but after thinking over it, /DRK on it's own won't cut it, however if there are any other changes which is what I would expect from plans they have announced, anythings possible.