Overall Battle System Adjustments for the Future

[TheBarrister]

You clearly have not done this "mathing out" you are telling other people to do, because if you had you would know that the game's mechanics by default have made it so that 1H jobs become significantly weaker than 2H jobs when fighting high level targets because of the ratio term alone.

I'm aware that 1 handed utility jobs who have functions besides damage dealing are not = to the damage of jobs who function to do just damage with 2 handed weapons. Thief was my first job and I played nothing but Thief until Treasures of Aht Urghan came out. I have a long and rich history of understanding what the top jobs have been and haven't been. Please address the actual % you are claiming the game unfairly treats one handed jobs. Then be honest and account for the utility functions. The game is pretty well balanced right where it is right now. However, if you'd simply like a new favorite Baskin Robbins flavor of the month to be the special, I can understand the jealousy.

Also my Thief can't effectively do area damage to multiple small enemies at once (in b4 aeolian edge is suggested in complete seriousness), or absorb a significant amount of a stat like some 2 hander jobs can. Every job has something unique to it without considering DPS numbers.

Whoopdeedoo. Where does this even matter? Lol2yeardoldabyssea? Are you arguing that 1H Thf can't AoE as well as 1H Blue Mage?

The problem is not that we have just a few top DD and the other DD need to be made equal. Then we'll just have more jobs competing for the same exact role. The problem, which as usual is being glossed over because you are fighting amongst yourselves, is that what utility jobs bring to the table is useless. Make that utility more useful and it simply becomes a playerbase issue.

Or just get rid of all jobs besides mages and add 1 "I do DMG" job.

[Motenten]

Supplementing what Kincard said:

Against top-end mobs, around level 120 (well, 119 for this example), the absolute best cRatio a 1-hander can get is 1.0, while the absolute best a 2-hander can get is 1.25. That means that, even if the two jobs were functionally equivalent at the same cRatio, the 2-hander will do 25% more damage than the 1-hander, which is a pretty massive difference, particularly in content where time limits are the main opponent (eg: Legion).

On top of that is the better str->attack conversion for higher attack (and thus easier to reach capped cRatio), and dex->accuracy conversion to actually hit the mob (there can be up to a 20% difference in hit rates due to that, which, if not corrected for, is another 25% difference in damage). In situations where it's easy for a drk to hit capped cRatio, and where the sam doesn't really care because his weaponskills get a massive attack boost (and thus will almost always be at capped cRatio for most of his damage anyway), 1-handers would be struggling to even hit the 1.0 ratio. There's a pretty high likelihood that the raw difference in cRatio will be markedly higher than 25% due to the need to also load up on extra acc gear.

Simply adjusting the str:attack and dex:accuracy ratios will mostly just be a band-aid on the difference between the two weapon classes. Unfortunately Camate has confirmed that there's no actual consideration for level correction changes.

The accuracy difference is a buff and stat conversion limitation, and can be overcome (with difficulty). The cRatio difference is a hard game limit that will always leave a gulf between 2-handers and 1-handers.

Whether that's an intentional gulf is another question altogether.

[ManaKing]

I'm very happy that /DRK might have some possibilities for NOT WAR or SAM, because those two love each other too much to cheat. On a very serious note, DRK is not powerful if you take away Ragnarok and Resolution. WAR is still powerful if you take them away. I really think you need to re-evaluate this just a little more.

Greatsword is supposed to be the main weapon for Rune Fencer but currently WAR and DRK would argue that it's their main weapon since all you see is Ragnaroks on the back of every DD that can wear it in Port Jeuno. Please do everyone a big favor and nerf Resolution by subtracting a hit from it and adding that hit to Entropy and Quietus. Scythes are terrible right now and they need to be fixed so we can weed out some of these overnight DRKs.

WAR will go back to Ukko and DRKs will go back to looking like DRKs. When Rune Fencer comes out, you can find a way for it to use Resolution better than WAR and DRK based on the merits of it's job. If everyone is playing the same couple jobs because they are blatantly better, then you have let one of the primary draws to your game fail : a real job system.

I really appreciate the augments to the magic system. It would be nice to see more mages and fewer WAR and DRKs with Ragnaroks.

Please like if you agree with me.

[Falseliberty]

"Then be honest and account for the utility functions. The game is pretty well balanced right where it is right now."

WUT?..............

[Arciel]

quite excited by the elemental magic overhaul. it acknowledges how magic damage has fallen behind both in terms of power and speed.
and because these changes are universal down to level 1, it also acknowledges and partially addresses that magic in battle is sorely outpaced by melee at the moment.

this being a key concern, I'm hopeful that Matsui will cover other job areas that require attention in the correct manner.

as for the DRK thing, i like that they're adjusting other jobs up instead of directly nerfing DRK by tweaking the ability and allowing for more potential SJ options.

[Tassidaru]

I think half of the argument for more merit ws is based from the fact that most of the mws are vastly superior to the 300 skill/mythic/quested ws. As a Sam and Blu i can say that while i may be able to do without Requescat (though the utility value is insane) i cannot lose Shoha...the difference being while 90% of the time Req is only a minor improvement in comparison to San.blade and Savage blade and Vorpal blade(outside of aby), shoha is massively beyond gekko rana and kasha, the ranges being roughly 1.5k-2.5k vs 3k-5k...i bet that if the dev team would adjust the quested and mythic ws to close the gap, not entirely perhaps but close, that the demand for moar merit ws slots would fade to a minor rumble.

[Traxus]

Please consider updating blue magic nuke efficiency in a similar fashion to what's happening to elemental magic. I'm not saying it should be on par with blm or sch, but it should retain the same relative nuking potential it has to them now.

Also, why are you keeping weapon skill merit caps in the game at all? What is the point? The proposed change is certainly better than what we have now, but I still don't see the purpose in limiting them in any fashion, same thing with combat/magic skill merits. Why are some of my jobs forcefully hindered by the merits I have for others? Why can't I pick up weapon skills like shattersoul for mage jobs, apex arrow for sam, etc. for fun, without sacrificing power on more important weapon skills? Why can't I merit summoning magic skill without dropping something more valuable?

What's the purpose of penalizing fun, and reducing replay value of the game with these caps?

[Smokenttp]

Balance between two-handed and single-handed weapons

Good to see that just dont make a merit adjustment or ability make it a full time adjustment.

Regarding Dark Knight
Interresting one for sub jobs, will not change drk too much tough, and i agreed that scythes ws´s need a boost overall

Regarding Defense

More people should be comenting on this one, i agree that defense should play a bigger role even with enemies buffs (crawlers and crabs would be alot toughter overall), or berserk like debuffs afterall you can manually take then off, and depending on level will have the options to dispell enemies... also this will pretty much affect damage overall indirectly affecting spells like dia and bio so would change alot in terms of damage , in my opinion an welcome change.

Merit Point Weapon Skills
looks interresting but probably should raise the points abit so we can take at least 3 ws to full charge and chose some other ones "for fun"

Elemental Magic

Awesome overall , needs to affect Gas, Jas and AMs as well.

Regarding Content

Overall welcome changes
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Also Camate mind sending a message to dev team? even tough low (1-30) - mid(31-60) level is pretty much non-existent nowadays do they plan to do some balancing to the jobs in those levels? i understand that those would need to wait the defense adjustment (if they go along with it) the enfeebling and elemental magic adjustments and most importantly the enmity adjustment, but i would like to see adjustments to jobs in those levels as well.

[SpankWustler]

They are specifically talking about the fact that stats such as DEX and STR affect two-handed weapons more than single-handed weapons, and how they would like to make it so there are more merits to wielding single-handed weapons.
The term "補正" can be translated as "correction" in some cases, but in this context it is the term known as "modifier."

This is what I expected, but still a let-down.

I was hoping the change would be more or less opposite this: the extra bonuses from STR and DEX would remain unique to two-handed weapons but all main-hand weapons would receive roughly the same cRatio (Attack/Defense ratio) cap somehow. Or, maybe just all melee weapons since so many jobs Dual Wield naturally now.

This would keep an across the board advantage for two-handed weapons while making it difficult, but possible, for one-handed weapons to close the huge gap in damage that is present in any situation involving very high level monsters. In that specific situation, a change to the bonuses from STR and DEX for one-handed weapons will just make it considerably easier to hit the lower cap due to fewer concerns about accuracy along with ~40 Attack itself but do little to change the gaping gap that gapes once that lower cap is hit.

Another bonus is that there would be relatively little change to the more laid-back content at which the typical job that uses one-handed weapon and has various (often dubious) utility abilities excels. Those are situations that don't often involve Attack buffs from other players, often involve lower level monsters, or both; this makes cRatio less likely to be capped, the .25 difference less noticeable as the difference is likely to be ~2-2.25 rather than ~1-1.25 when it is capped, or some mixture of the two varying from monster to monster.

Come on, let this one slide. You can make up the difference in sense-making later by putting Puppetmaster on all the premier sets of mage equipment when Seekers of Adoulin is introduced, if you want.

[Mindi]

Balance between two-handed and single-handed weapons

[...]
For example, we are currently looking into the possibility of adding some form of merit that would enhance the modifiers for the single-handed weapon main weapon slot.

please dont only enhance the main weapon slot, whatever buff you do should also effect the Sub weapon when dual wielding.

Merit Point Weapon Skills

[...]
Instead of adjusting the cap value, we are currently looking into adjusting the modifier values so that these weapon skills can be used with a single merit point.

We are envisioning to make it so 1 merit point will yield a 65% status modifier, and each point afterwards will grant an addition 5% for a maximum of 85% (no changes to the max value).

If this is your solution to the Merit-WS request then you can save your time and dont change it at all. This makes absolute NO SENSE to change it like this. Its either Full Merited, or nothing, even if you change the minimum status Modifier, it will still be all or nothing. Raise the amount of Merit Weapon skills we can fully merit (like 5 5/5 WS's should be atleast a start if you dont want completly uncap it) So many many many players have all jobs 99, have EVERY SINGLE Merit point they could get.. they have nothing left to do with exp.. give them somethng to spend them on.. like more merit WS's and dont come here with this useless solution of just making 1/5 less gimp.

5/5 Merits in a WS is allways the goal, aslong as 5/5 does higher dmg then 1/5. This wont change.