Overall Battle System Adjustments for the Future

[saevel]

Really? because my first post about this subject said take a hit off of resolution and add it to Entropy and Quietus

And thus you are advocating nerfing Resolution right out the gate. It's fueled by pure spite due to the number of Wagnaroks running around.

Scyth WS's have sucked for a long time. Prior to Resolution Great Sword WS's sucked even more then Scyth did and thus DRK's everyone used Scyth. The previous "best" Scyth WS was guillotine, 4 hits with first hit being 0.875 for a total of 3.875 fTP. The mods were 25% STR, 25% MND, ohh and it can silence the target that will shortly die anyway. Quietus is only marginally better then Guilly was, depending on gear setup. For Great swords it was Spinning Slash, 2.5 fTP, 30% STR 30% INT and 50% attack bonus. This made SS decent on high level targets if the DRK wasn't getting buffed and could put out big numbers as /THF. For pure spam Guilly beat it out easily and SH is a better SA 300TP WS anyway (back when we did that). Torcleaver was a big boost for GSWD, 4.75 fTP @60% VIT.

Now compare this to Great Axe, Raging Rush 3 hits (3.0 fTP) @35% STR WSC with a 15/30/50 crit rate. RR easily beats out anything Scyth / GSWD had during that era, for 300TP SAWS you had Steel Cyclone. Then Ukon was created and the awesomeness that was UF was unleashed. 2 hit 3.0 fTP 60% STR 20/35/55 Crit WS on a job that also received CAB and additional gear that further enhances their crit damage. Tachi Gekko was modified many times due to SE over buffing it at one point in time. Y/G/K respond to +TP very favorably and resulted in Gekko being spammed @200 with a Hagun so I'll list it's 100 and 200 stats. @100 1.5625 75% STR WSC +100% attack bonus, @200 1.875 fTP, @300 2.5. This created a WS that would be extremely consistent even when under-buffed, Y/G/K was a WS you threw as much STR at as possible due to you always being instantly capped on Attack. Then SE created Fudo, 3.75 fTP 60% STR, one hit WS which covered all the situations that Y/G/K wouldn't be ideal in (being super buffed) by having a much larger total fTP.

DRG used Penta, 5-hit 5.0 fTP 20% STR 20% DEX, also had Skewer for 3-hit 3.0 fTP critical hit WS 35% STR mod and finally Drakesbane for a four hit 4.0 fTP 50% STR critical hit WS that had a 18.7% attack penalty.

Now with these as the background it's pretty easy to see how GS / Scyth were stupidly weak. DRK's real weapons were never Scyth / Great Sword, they were Club / Dagger / Sword depending on how rich / lucky you were. The only exception to this was if you had an Apoc and relics were stupidly hard / expensive to make back then. Apoc was good due to the +10% gear haste from the AM effect, it allowed the DRK to cap equip haste easily, the Runic Great Axe did this also and was much cheaper to acquire.

Now enter in the merit WS's which evened things out. Shoha is just a super Gekko, attack bonus and all. Stardiver is powerful and replaces Drakes / Penta as the spam WS of choice. Upheavel is powerful yet is overshadowed by the awesomeness that is UF. SE was smoking something when they made Entropy, exact same stats as Stardiver but use's INT instead thus forcing Scyth DRK's to make compromises in their WS gear selection (no double dipping for fSTR / attack). Then we have Resolution which changed the single worst category of weapons amongst DD's into something that's actually competitive.

The only reason you see so many Wagnaroks is that you can farm it entirely solo doing an every day activity and buy the final set of marrows. Ukon's require you to build Glavoid / Itzapotle / Orthrus pop sets and rely on /sh or other people to help you build it. Then you have to deal with the insanely stupid task of getting 1500 HMPs, then the final rift item upgrade. SAM / DRG have it worse in that their super game crushing weapon lies behind a 30,000 alexandrite wall.

So now we have
99 Ukon (WAR) = 99 Rag (WAR/DRK) = 99 Kogarasumaru (SAM) = 99 Ryunohige (DRG)
Right behind those is 99 Masamune / Amano, 99 Apoc and 99 Gugnir with 99 Bravura. Though 99 Bravura gets special mention, it's AM is -20% DT which could be handy for a WAR pseudo tanking big nasties.

I don't know how 99 Liberator and 99 Conqueror stack up to those, haven't seen the math wizardry behind them.

Suddenly that perceived "OMG WAGNAROKS ARE RUINING THE GAME" is shown to be a bunch of bovine scatology. Its no more powerful then any of the other super weapon combos. The only thing different is that it's much more convenient to build then the rest, it's the easiest and thus becomes the most popular. So in nerfing Res / Rag combo your only accomplishment is to relegate DRK back into abyssea obscurance. By trying to nerf / buff Res / Rag for Scyth you only exchange one super weapon for another, possibly making it so DRK would need a mythic like SAM / DRG and recreating Warrior Fantasy from Abyssea.

You still believe Scythe WSs are in need of buffing because they are generally out performed by almost every other 2H weapon though?

Demanding nerfs without actually knowing the mechanics behind what your demanding is rather foolish. Your not actually accomplishing your stating goal (making scyths more competitive) while doing severe harm to the existing player base. You sure you didn't work for Tanaka previously? And how the hell will nerfing Reso / Rag make Scyth any better in the big picture? WAR's can still use Ukkon, DRG's still get DB/SD, and SAM's still have Fudo / Shoha.

Now what you really should be asking for is Scyth WS's to be buffed in general. Either change Entropy to 100% STR so that it at least becomes competitive, or keep it 100% INT and add a hit. Leave Rag / Reso combo as is for those who went that path. Yet somehow I think your desire to punish what you perceive as a bandwagon crowd won't allow you to understand that.

[saevel]

I play DRK with a Scythe or Dual Wielding 1H axes which is why I don't play DRK anymore.

Had to reread that last part .... which explains your complete and utter lack of understanding of game mechanics. Just wanted to be clear that you would prefer DRK's resort to axe's over using GSWD?

I know 3 Scythe DRKs that either have quit in the last 3 months or are quitting because they are sick of not having a single WS that is worth using anymore and they don't like Greatswords. I know a DRK that has a Liberator and doesn't use it because it's garbage compared to his Resolution spam. Resolution has taken away people's ability to identify with their jobs and that is cancerous for diversity as well as SEs pocketbook.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah like I originally thought, your just spewing vitriol.

[Hayward]

Overall, I like where this is going. 1-handed weapons, contrary to the opinions of some, do need to have their damage output punched up to close the gap with 2-handers. Paladins have a difficult enough time keeping a monster's attention without having to sacrifice their shield in order to do some damage. Daggers really need this because of the lackluster nature of the latest Weapon Skills--yes, Extenterator has a secondary use but the damage doesn't do much now to justify more than 1 merit. I can't say for certain if DNCs would benefit as much as THFs but it certainly can't do anything but help.

On Dark Knight, the job is powerful enough at this point with Great Swords--Resolution is a beast past 60% STR. Scythes still need some fixes, though, starting with the delay and Weapon Skills. Splitting the Haste distribution between Last Resort and Desperate Blows is pretty slick and makes RDM/DRK an appealing fighting support job.

The merit WS changes are reasonable, though I see nothing wrong with raising the cap slightly in tandem with this. As is, it takes 3 levels for a WS to become even serviceable (save for Tachi: Shoha at one extreme and Blade: Shun at the other). This goes some distance to address the issue of distribution of merits to each WS. I guess Ruinator's back on the radar for BST.

[Prothscar]

Changing the modifier ratio for 1handed weapon users (only for the main weapon and not offhand?) brings the risk of making some 1handed weapons jobs too strong, hence requiring furhter nerfs after the change. People hate nerfs, if you think something is gonna be too powerful and require a nerf after, just don't do it.

OH NO 20 EXTRA ACC FOR ONE OF MY TWO HANDS DDDDDDDDDDDDD:


no but srsly, the change is minute. don't worry about it.

[tyrantsyn]

Think it's going to take a little more than 15% haste to go /drk over /sam. Offensive tool's would be threw the roof of course. But DRK has crap past weapon bash for defense option. And atleast with /sam segian and Third eye are an option.

I like the Fact there trying to mix thing's up by making DRK a viable sub. I'm kind of puzzled tho for all that extra damage output available how were suppose to stay alive. As a WAR/DRK with berserk and Last resort up you'd have a 40% defensive drop. Talk about a glass cannon.

[Yenecol]

It doesn't really work that way pal. It's all or bust on these weapon skills. Quit being D-bags and trolling us with this crap. Allow us to fully merit them all. Anything less than 5/5 merits is more or less worthless.


WTF is wrong with you guys? Why do you always have to find a weird annoying roundabout way to implement things? Why can't you ever just do what makes sense? I promise you that the world will not explode just because for once you did Exactly what the people wanted.

This is the best post I have ever read on these forums. I agree 100%. 5/5 or no one will want them anyway!

[Kincard]

If you think that the merit weapon skills are not really good in their current form at 4/5 merits (which is what 1/5 merits will essentially give you post-patch), then you are probably not as familiar with the game mechanics you think you are.

[Alhanelem]

This is the best post I have ever read on these forums. I agree 100%. 5/5 or no one will want them anyway!

Foolhardy post. With the changes they are proposing, the difference between 3/5 ~ 4/5 and 5/5 is almost negligible. This change also makes the WS when initially unlocked a lot less sucky for when you're meriting it up. Many of the new WS will still outperform other popular WS even with 3/5.

Asking to have all of them maxable is like asking for one to be able to max every skill in every tree in games with skill/talent trees. The whole reason those exist is to create a decision for the player that makes one player different from another, and it is the reason merits exist too. I totally agree the current scheme is too restricting but what they're doing is at least a step in the right direction. If the max points were 25, you could max 5 or put 4 in 6 or 3 in 8 or some mix thereof. I think this is totally reasonable without applying the "gimme everything' mentality.

This change also makes the WS merits a lot like many of the job specific ones- Actually useful with the first point and buffed up with the rest, rather than "useless until you max it."

[Kincard]

After the patch even 1/5 would make the majority of them useful. One of the primary complaints/reasoning people used for it in the first place is that "I won't be able to play my other jobs because they're now missing a key WS and I don't have time to get REMs for all of them".

Well, now you don't have to.

[Insaniac]

I don't understand why you are defending a half measure. Yes it's better than what we have now. Everyone understands that. Though in a game where people obsess over the tiniest increases in damage, do you really think it's a great solution? Rolling with a 95% modifier instead of 100% is not a level of self inflicted gimpage most people will be willing to accept no matter how miniscule a decrease in DPS it actually is. Most of us will keep 3 capped WSs.