RDM Dual Wield Idea!

[Demon6324236]

Give RDM a new tier of Dual Wield with 0 Delay reduction. Then add a spell that lowers delay while Dual Wielding. Think of it like Temper, in how Temper gives RDM Double Attack, without it actually being the trait, then with more skill you get more DA. Well this spell would just basically give you an enhancement on your Dual Wielding. So say at the start its 0% reduction from the trait, then with the spell you get -5%, and then have it progress as Temper does, ending at -20%. This would put RDM at a level of delay right between DW 2 and 3. This would give RDM access to Dual Wield as it has long been asked for, but keeping it unique like Temper was.

Obviously like this post if you, ya know, like the idea and all that.

[Demon6324236]

Like this post if you dislike that idea up there, because this is the best were getting in terms of a dislike button for ideas.

[Carth]

I don't really like the idea of relying on even more enhancement spells than we already do, but this is probably the best we would get if we ever got a DW trait.

[Demon6324236]

Well as people have pointed out to me RDM never gets melee traits, however our spells are kinda our traits, but they evolve though Enhancing Skill rather than tiers and gear that specifically enhances it, so really this is more or less playing to that same idea. The difference is that making DW only work with that spell active means if it wears then boom, lost all your TP, and your 2nd weapon, which would be a big problem by compare, so DW0 would work to make up for that. In the end we would have the same basic idea as how alot of our RDM spells already work, just with a slight alteration to make it work for Dual Wield, while also helping to bridge the gap between RDM and every other thing that deals damage.

[Carth]

Then quick question.

Would having this spell also affect DW3 from /NIN?

[Demon6324236]

I was questioning that myself honestly. With this spell and /NIN you would at best hit 45%, NIN gets 35% at 99 so RDM would be ahead. Not sure how to balance it out without nerfing it, unless they can somehow make it so that you only get delay reduction from 1 source. If the trait is more than the spell if giving you, the spell is nulled, and if the spell is giving you more, the trait is nulled. Though that seems like something that SE would have a problem doing, so I cant exactly say how they should go about messing with that. Another solution would be to just make the trait more dominate, and the spell only work if your trait is 0, that seems a bit more workable, then if your /NIN or /DNC you cant use the spell, making it worthless as /DNC, but still a good trade off if it works otherwise.

[Sunrider]

All jobs should get a native Dual Wield 0, simply for the benefit of dualing 1-hand weapons.

Then, for RDM (and maybe other jobs with similar powers), another trait reducing delay whenever a weapon-enhancing spell is cast on the user: this would mean En-spells and Temper. Maybe a apply a lower reduction rate when subbing jobs like NIN, that offer higher Dual Wield.

[ManaKing]

Lol I haven't played NIN/RDM in years!

On a semi serious note, you could give RDM Dual Wield 1 and allow this spell to give Dual Wield 2 and 3 at specific levels of Enhancing. Dual Wield 3 requiring 500+ Enhancing.

Getting dual wield natively means that RDM/WAR becomes very normal overnight. Temper + Double Attack trait means RDM gets 30% Double Attack Natively along with Berserk, Aggressor, and Warcry. Sanguine Blade is no longer the issue for /WAR, it's that RDMs are murderously beating things to death with CDC and Requiescat. All the while, Cure IVs at full potency.

That is a pretty powerful job you are describing. I don't suspect we would ever get a buff again, which means no more magic adjustment. Essentially that's the argument I would have against this kind of change. I'm very pro melee, but I don't neglect my magics, since that's why I'm playing a RDM. If it were a choice between actually good Enspell improvements or native dual wield, I would take Enspells. They are the reason I'm playing RDM to begin with and what I like most about the job. Enfeebles and Stoneskin being my runners up.

[Sunrider]

That is a pretty powerful job you are describing. I don't suspect we would ever get a buff again, which means no more magic adjustment. Essentially that's the argument I would have against this kind of change. I'm very pro melee, but I don't neglect my magics, since that's why I'm playing a RDM. If it were a choice between actually good Enspell improvements or native dual wield, I would take Enspells. They are the reason I'm playing RDM to begin with and what I like most about the job. Enfeebles and Stoneskin being my runners up.

It might be a powerful job, but broken enfeebling magics would still be broken and still need addressing, regardless of whether RDM suddenly became melee contenders. RDM's increase in damage potential would depend on the level of Dual Wield we could obtain, and RDM would still be limited to a degree by spell cycles, even with Composure. Really, the only things that might justifiably never see improvement might be tier 2 En-spells... and even then, there's still no justification for the way their damage is calculated.

But, if native Dual Wield seriously improved RDM frontline to the magnitude you project, a loss in En-spell 2 improvements is a small price to pay.

[ManaKing]

It is.

But the point of having different jobs, for me, is having job identity and diversity. It is more important for job identity for RDMs to have working enspells as their medium for excelling in melee. Dual Wield is associated with NIN, and while I don't mind using it, I wouldn't mind having other viable options. There are possible adjustments that will affect RDM that should make it's way over to the NA forums somewhat soon that might change our outlook on melee sub jobs.

My favorite way to play RDM is RDM/DRK, but I don't mind RDM/NIN because it does a god job of covering our weaknesses. Blink is not a good spell compared to Utsu, Dual Wield contributes more damage than LR and attack bonuses, NIN magic has its uses. The other fun thing with dual wield is you get to play with your offhand choices.

The other hand up on not dual wielding is that we don't get Fencer to go with our spiffy Shield Mastery, much like PLD ; ;