So why do we have the worst Espells?

[Carth]

snip

[Llana_Virren]

When comparing Enspell tiers, I challenge you to assume the RDM is not using any form of DW.

[Demon6324236]

When comparing Enspell tiers, I challenge you to assume the RDM is not using any form of DW.

And yet its still a downgrade in some parts, meaning it should either not be called an En-II spell, or it should be fixed to represent a proper upgrade.

[Llana_Virren]

And yet its still a downgrade in some parts, meaning it should either not be called an En-II spell, or it should be fixed to represent a proper upgrade.

Assuming no DW, please explain how it is a downgrade.

[Demon6324236]

Double Attack from Temper, Triple Attack from gear, no damage on the extra hits where there should be. Also if your single wielding an Excalibur, which both I and Iocus have, then En-IIs are also worthless because they do not stack with the additional effect which is much more potent so long as you keep your HP up. The fact the spell does not work with a trait that RDM gets natively is a flaw that should be corrected. Also, if your thinking along the lines of what a RDM without a DW sub has, then En-Is should be no different. The fact that En-Is lost features and effects going from tier I to tier II is the flaw most people see in the spells, and they are correct.

[Asymptotic]

The additional effect has a 7% proc rate. Excalibur's additional effect is only more powerful than Enspell Is if you consistently have more than 1715 HP.

[Carth]

Assuming no DW, please explain how it is a downgrade.

We just explained this about ~3-6 posts ago.

[Demon6324236]

Not when only using a weapon in your main hand so far as I know, which is what I was told to assume.

[ManaKing]

What does it feel like when you double attack with Enspell 2s up? Like you just got cheated.

Joyeuse was darn good for a long time on RDM and 2 out of 4 Prestige weapons suffer complications because of how Enspells are setup (3 if you count the poison effect on Mandau). Enspells are a sloppy mess. SE has the ability to fix RDM so that it could be competent, but they choose not to or they aren't aware of how unattractive mechanics play out and affect their player base. We all understand that would take time and resources away from whatever else is being done, but this doesn't just affect RDM. It also affects PLD, DNC, and DRK. I'm pretty sure reversing the priority order of additional affects as stated by sweet idealism is the best we've gotten out of this discussion so far. It makes a lot of sense because it gives better preference to party synergy and would help jobs that aren't very desirable while not hurting jobs that are doing fine already.

Enspell 2s are a reflection of our problems and is one of the biggest reasons we are where we are. Bad choices that were poorly designed with little to no insight for the future. We have Shield Mastery with no shields worth giving up dual wield. Higher Tier Enspells that don't stack with additional attacks. Temper that doesn't have synergy with Enspell 2s. It's like they didn't actually give us any good direction to go. At least if Enspell 2s did more damage than Enspell 1s in all situations, we would deal more damage.

What is the point of being decent at a lot of things if devs pick all the stupid stuff that doesn't work with each other? You'd think they would give us the one trait that covers both magic and melee, Occult Accumen. But nope, that some how didn't make it on the list with Shield Mastery of things that RDM should get past 75, much less improvements to enspells in the vein of Enlight and Endark.

Please rework additional affects in general and enspells for RDM. Both could be better.

[Carth]

Maybe people aren't actually informed on how Enspell IIs work, so I'll lay out the details.

Enspell Is are very simple. The higher you enhancing, the more damage your enspells will do. @500 Enhancing your Enspells will natively do 30 damage per swing.

Enspell IIs are affected by enhancing gear per hit, instead of automatically applying the Enhancing gear on cast. This means you have to use Enhancing gear as a TP set if you wish to use Enspell IIs with full potency. Furthermore, Enspell IIs are affected by the first hit of your mainhand only. Not multihits, not dbl/tpl attack hits. Only the first hit.

Now back at 75 cap we had Joyuese, a high proc multihit weapon. Enspell IIs were obviously not ideal for this. Now we're off of Joyeuse and other multi-hit weapons because we have Temper and Double/Triple Attack gear. Players can easily get 30% Double Attack from Temper, Atheling Mantle, Brutal, and Calmecac Trousers, which also gets 3% Triple Attack. You can also get capped haste rather easily in this game if you work for it, which allows for increased chances for double attack and triple attack to proc.

I'm not a FFXI mathematician, but logic states that the more you get Double/Triple attack to proc, the less value Enspell IIs have. If you don't have Double/Triple attack, obviously Enspell IIs win, but that's impossible because we have Temper. And even if we didn't have Temper, we'd be using OAT swords.

In other words, even when Single-Wielding, the only way that Enspell IIs are stronger than Enspell I is if your gear is absolutely terrible.