SoA content for ALL 20 jobs...

[Hayward]

Before the Developers even think of announcing the starting content for Seekers of Adoulin, I'd like to know whether or not they have acted positively in creating content and events that are proof against the exclusion of nearly 3/4 of the jobs in the game by "professional" forum sites and the sheep who parrot their talking points. This was the only aspect of Abyssea that rubbed me the wrong way and is what keeps me from even thinking about Voidwatch (anyone saying they haven't seen "R/M/E DD only" shouts is an unbelievably bad liar).

I want to see content that is accessible to any and every job, whether their weapons are Relic, Empyrean, Mythic, Magian, or just store-bought. Exclusionary content at this point will only accelerate the demise of this franchise.

[Slaxx]

No matter what the developers create a quick and efficient strategy will soon be developed. People who want to clear the content quickly and efficiently will use these strategies. If you want to complete content with a less than optimal set-up then you are free to set up your own runs. People who use these strategies are not sheep, they are some of the few capable of researching a fight and getting a group together for it. Personally if I'm farming seals with my Linkshell then a sub-optimum set-up is fine. I'm helping a friend and we're hanging out in between pops, chatting etc. If I'm doing seals with a pick up group of people I don't know I definitely am more inclined to just get it over with. The fastest way to get it over with is bringing the optimal group.

Voidwatch is by far the most job diversity friendly event in the history of the game, if you think otherwise then you don't really know what you're talking about. Yes, there are "R/M/E only" shouts but they are by no means the only shouts out there. I am often able to join those groups, on my Dragoon, with no R/M/E. Will every job be useful for every event? Of course not,that's a pipe dream and to think otherwise is beyond foolish.

What it comes down to is even if any job can contribute to an event there will often be a job that can contribute more, which speeds up completion, which means people are finished faster. They can then tackle the content again for another chance at rewards or move on with there day. Personally I'd almost always rather get more done for a chance to better my character than get less done and not advance my personal or (in the case of my Linknshell) group goals.

[Yrusama]

Think of it this way. In FF Tactics you tend to use a certain group of characters for their effectiveness in battle. Even if your whole party is at level cap, you find only certain members useful. Think of how left out those other characters would feel if they could.

In Tactics, you bring a THF in because you want items from a boss, but thereafter might switch him to DRG for more damage. You might also bring in a SMN to cast Golem on the party for stoneskin if the enemy uses mostly melee hits, but would otherwise leave them out or have them on a different job.

In FFX I rarely used Lulu. Shes a great BLM early on, but when you get to the point where the only differences between characters are their overdrives and weapon bonuses, her overdrive just doesn't cut it compared to Wakka's or Khimari's. With this in mind, no wonder she's so broody: she doesn't get enough exercise.

Party leaders in MMOs have to make these same decisions. What jobs/subjobs are going to get the win faster, let alone get it at all? Fortunately I get whatever I need on WHM because it's rare that someone would turn down a healer.

[Spiritreaver]

<IMO valid concern>

Might as well have the dev team build a better human while you are at it.

Sorry if that comes off as flip, but it really doesn't matter how well content is setup out of the gate, its still going to be used by gamers. And gamers are just human beings.

[Alhanelem]

edit: well yeah I agree with you but creating content where literally every job is "useful" is a nearly impossible task without resorting to weird gmmicks.

[Sotek]

there will be 22 jobs and of course there will be content for all of them. Unless you mean "where all of them are useful" but that's an almost impossible task without silly gimmicks.

Would a WoE/Limbus style event with paths designed for specific job combinations be a silly gimmick? Several different paths (which they can continually add to, which is perfect for a launch event) with only certain jobs being able to enter certain paths and the rewards being for those jobs only, with an overarching final Proto-Ultima/Omega style boss path.

I certainly wouldn't want the entire game to play like that, but it would be a welcome change to something like Nyzul Isle where every job wants to obtain the rewards but only a handful are ever going to be worthwhile for it. If they actually balance such an event properly they could actually make it quite enjoyable with alternative strategies; various jobs can have multiple roles which such an event can highlight, and of course there are plenty of aspects of some jobs which are out right worthless most of the time which they can practically balance the event around.

[hiko]

No matter what the developers create a quick and efficient strategy will soon be developed. People who want to clear the content quickly and efficiently will use these strategies. If you want to complete content with a less than optimal set-up then you are free to set up your own runs. People who use these strategies are not sheep, they are some of the few capable of researching a fight and getting a group together for it. Personally if I'm farming seals with my Linkshell then a sub-optimum set-up is fine. I'm helping a friend and we're hanging out in between pops, chatting etc. If I'm doing seals with a pick up group of people I don't know I definitely am more inclined to just get it over with. The fastest way to get it over with is bringing the optimal group.

Voidwatch is by far the most job diversity friendly event in the history of the game, if you think otherwise then you don't really know what you're talking about. Yes, there are "R/M/E only" shouts but they are by no means the only shouts out there. I am often able to join those groups, on my Dragoon, with no R/M/E. Will every job be useful for every event? Of course not,that's a pipe dream and to think otherwise is beyond foolish.

What it comes down to is even if any job can contribute to an event there will often be a job that can contribute more, which speeds up completion, which means people are finished faster. They can then tackle the content again for another chance at rewards or move on with there day. Personally I'd almost always rather get more done for a chance to better my character than get less done and not advance my personal or (in the case of my Linknshell) group goals.

imo the issue is not that " there will often be a job that can contribute more," but that those jobs are the same for every event, and other jobs are useless in every event

Would a WoE/Limbus style event with paths designed for specific job combinations be a silly gimmick? Several different paths (which they can continually add to, which is perfect for a launch event) with only certain jobs being able to enter certain paths and the rewards being for those jobs only, with an overarching final Proto-Ultima/Omega style boss path.

half agree. having event where unwanted jobs shine is nice, having people unable to help/play with friends because they don't have said jobs and can't even enter the area isn't

[Alhanelem]

i can't say I wouldn't mind a series of dungeons or whatever that specifically required a certain job combination (and specifically rewarded those jobs), but if the only way to make various jobs feel wanted is to arbitrarily lock out this job and that job from a particular fight is still a kind of a lame way to make those jobs more used. There already exist solo battlefields that change depending on the job you are, and that's cool and all, but I want to be invited to a party on <insert job here> because it is beneficial, not because SE said only this job (or set of jobs) is allowed to participate.

In other words, its a problem that's more solvable by the right job adjustments than by specifically tailoring content- I suppose you could argue, however, that SE is better at making content to include specific jobs than actually making those jobs used more in general.

[Kincard]

People need to learn to distinguish the difference between barring people without REMs and barring certain jobs. REMs becoming required only happened because SE made it so much easier to obtain them. Back when relics were something only very, very few people had it would've been absurd to ask that even one member of your party have one. If it wasn't REMs, it'd be something else (Armor). Other games have this built into dungeon seekers by just having items have their own item level values. It's just something that will naturally happen if you have some items be better than other items. The only real reason you didn't see it happen back at 75 cap as often was because there was so little good gear to really choose from.

You could say that they should design content that can be beaten without REMs, but the fact is that most of the current stuff in the game CAN be beaten without REMs, it's just that nobody wants to because they can find someone who does have one just spending a couple extra minutes looking.

[Zirael]

[...]

You could say that they should design content that can be beaten without REMs, but the fact is that most of the current stuff in the game CAN be beaten without REMs, it's just that nobody wants to because they can find someone who does have one just spending a couple extra minutes looking.

In the past (just after Legion was released) SE said that they design ALL content to be beatable without special weapons (R/E/M), but after the new producer came here and started all that talk about certain people shouldn't be beating ADL/Legion/Odin2 etc. because their gear is too weak, I'm not sure if they will continue that design approach.