SoA content for ALL 20 jobs...

[Afania]

QFT

Best solution to THF is to remove Treasure Hunter altogether, increase drop rate globally and focus on THF's role as a DD (While fixing all other 1H DDs while you're at it).

If TH has to exist, don't make that basically the only reason THF exists.

We're in the age when most players have 5~10 jobs, lving 1 job and gear it to functionable takes 2 weeks to 3 months(3 months if needing relic for avg players) What's the point to "fix" DD jobs for them to catch up when we know ppl gonna spend a few weeks and use another job that does more dmg? You will never fix them unless some of their aspect is game changing.

[Kincard]

3 months for an average player to make a relic? If I do Dynamis every single day sure- you might say 2 hours a day isn't very much, but that's only if you assume I do nothing but play Dynamis every single day. If you add in other events (If someone is only doing Dynamis then they have no real reason to require a relic to begin with- you don't need a relic to farm Dynamis), that's a playtime of well over 2 hours a day. Unless I'm on vacation I doubt the average person has the time (or the patience) to relic up a job they don't even like just so they can play a certain event.

Aside from that, I should be able to play a job I simply enjoy playing in any endgame without severely crippling my group. Whenever I make groups with my friends, I do everything I can to let people come on jobs they enjoy playing even if it results in slightly worse results, because at the end of the day, we're playing to have fun. You shouldn't do something dumb like making a party of 6 THFs and go whack on something with massive AoE damage but you shouldn't be severely punished for taking a DRG or PUP instead of a WAR to Legion, either.

They can't make every job's DPS identical, no, but they should make classes that fill that role have their differences reduced to insignificance. Even the craziest min-maxer playing the game isn't obsessing over whether they should take a DRK or a WAR because the difference is simply negligible in the grand scheme of things. The problem isn't that there is a gap between DPS jobs, but rather that the gap is so large that it would severely cripple your run if you took anything but the 2 or 3 jobs that regularly top the DPS charts (generally SAM, WAR, DRK). Other games generally do not run into this issue because when their devs say balance, they obviously know what the word actually means.

Like, WAR and DRK both get really high DPS numbers but obviously there are cases where one will beat the other. There are very few, if any, cases where you'll see someone looking for a DPS and then tell a DRK he needs to have WAR leveled to participate (Aside from procs which are tailored to make you bring a variety of jobs anyway). The same isn't true if I want to DPS on DNC, THF, NIN, DRG etc. A THF dual wielding a Mandau and Twashtar 99 geared in Hexed-1 and perfect gear shouldn't be being out-DPSed by a WAR wielding a Laceratrice or Dies Irae using AF3+2 and AH gear.

You could argue that those listed jobs have utility to make up for it, but that would be ignoring the "utility" the top DPS jobs bring too- WARs can swap between multiple weapon classes quite easily and are very effective at dealing area melee damage, DRKs provide absorb spells and have several unique spells of their own.

tl;dr, the philosophy should be "balance DPS, then add unique utility to every job" instead of "make utility take the place of having higher DPS".

[Caketime]

Speaking of procs, they are terrible. It's as if the devs were discussing ways to change battles and instead of doing anything significant they add a system that serves only to annoy the hell out of people in the name of job variety, while at the same time failing to achieve said variety. The only real problem here is procs involving WS are almost completely taken care of by a single WAR so job variety is pretty much moot unless the proc is only possible via weapons the WAR can't use. The "almost strategy" aspect of procs looks good on paper and that's about it.

DPS balance can be addressed pretty easily, by scaling one handed weapons to be more on par with the 2 handers. Not 100% equal, but it shouldn't be to the point where single handed weapon users are told to change to a 2h job or go sit in the corner.

Also, leveling and gearing a job + getting it a relic just for a single event is dumb as hell, the fact that people do exactly that is evidence enough that this game is marred by poor design. Nobody should have to play a job they don't like, forcing it with "commandos only" style events alienates anyone that likes to play support or otherwise designates them as the lamp bitch. SE wants to support group play and a friendly open community yet they design events with an antisocial basement dweller philosophy that supports one party setup every time.

[Alhanelem]

THF is just fine.

how come I never see one in a party then? Hell, i've seen more PUPs and SMNs than THFs in parties. Nobody takes THF for any reason other than TH, and in the biggest content right now, voidwatch, does TH even do anything?

Aside from that, I should be able to play a job I simply enjoy playing in any endgame without severely crippling my group. Whenever I make groups with my friends, I do everything I can to let people come on jobs they enjoy playing even if it results in slightly worse results, because at the end of the day, we're playing to have fun. You shouldn't do something dumb like making a party of 6 THFs and go whack on something with massive AoE damage but you shouldn't be severely punished for taking a DRG or PUP instead of a WAR to Legion, either.

quoted for complete and utter truth.

[Keyln]

No it isnt

Yes it is.

[Spiritreaver]

We're in the age when most players have 5~10 jobs, lving 1 job and gear it to functionable takes 2 weeks to 3 months(3 months if needing relic for avg players) What's the point to "fix" DD jobs for them to catch up when we know ppl gonna spend a few weeks and use another job that does more dmg? You will never fix them unless some of their aspect is game changing.

That is a flawed argument. Running with your way of thinking, why fix anything at all if there is a conceivable alternate way of doing it.

As i implied before about the OP, as long as humans are humans, ppl will always try and make one solution to a problem the only one right way. But that does NOT mean that suggestions for change should just be shrugged off. Specifically in an MMO like FFXI, nothing is ever going to be perfect, changes are always going to be needed as time goes on.

IMO glad the devs aren't like you, they'd just erase every job not WAR, WHM, and BLM and call it a day.

[Afania]

how come I never see one in a party then? Hell, i've seen more PUPs and SMNs than THFs in parties. Nobody takes THF for any reason other than TH, and in the biggest content right now, voidwatch, does TH even do anything?

quoted for complete and utter truth.

You used VW as example, why don't you use other example that ppl do take THF, which is pretty much everything else that's not VW(including legion, salvage2, meeble, dyna and so on).

That is a flawed argument. Running with your way of thinking, why fix anything at all if there is a conceivable alternate way of doing it.

As i implied before about the OP, as long as humans are humans, ppl will always try and make one solution to a problem the only one right way. But that does NOT mean that suggestions for change should just be shrugged off. Specifically in an MMO like FFXI, nothing is ever going to be perfect, changes are always going to be needed as time goes on.

IMO glad the devs aren't like you, they'd just erase every job not WAR, WHM, and BLM and call it a day.

And my point is that it's something that will never be "fixed", as players will always go most optimal setup, especially when 1 job takes weeks to gear up. There are plenty of things that needs to be fixed, should be fixed, but making every job have same chance of getting to event is last thing dev resource should go to. Dev been trying to "fix" it by all sorts of weird ways, such as VW proc, lower difficulty for content, or even punish pt with 3 ppl in meeble cuz 6 ppl gets more points etc, because "so that everyone can enjoy the content on any job"(You should be reward more if you can lowman the content, not getting punished)

And that just makes the game less fun and less challenging over all.

3 months for an average player to make a relic? If I do Dynamis every single day sure- you might say 2 hours a day isn't very much, but that's only if you assume I do nothing but play Dynamis every single day. If you add in other events (If someone is only doing Dynamis then they have no real reason to require a relic to begin with- you don't need a relic to farm Dynamis), that's a playtime of well over 2 hours a day. Unless I'm on vacation I doubt the average person has the time (or the patience) to relic up a job they don't even like just so they can play a certain event.

Most of the players I know of actively working on relic spent about 3 months to finish 1. Some are faster some are slower, but the slower one usually isn't actively working on one, just do it on spare time etc. If you do it on spare time, then it doesn't count as actively working on it of course

[Calatilla]

Yes it is.

SE hides behind treasure hunter as an excuse to leave THF trailing behind when treasure hunter is largly ineffective in most endgame events.

If Treasure hunter really is the defining reason for why THF even exists then get rid of the Taru Sash Augment, Bounty shot and BLU's TH trait, and any other form of TH that isnt THF specific, because if that's the only reason for the job to exist then it should be the only job to have it.

[Spiritreaver]

And my point is that it's something that will never be "fixed", as players will always go most optimal setup, especially when 1 job takes weeks to gear up. There are plenty of things that needs to be fixed, should be fixed, but making every job have same chance of getting to event is last thing dev resource should go to. Dev been trying to "fix" it by all sorts of weird ways, such as VW proc, lower difficulty for content, or even punish pt with 3 ppl in meeble cuz 6 ppl gets more points etc, because "so that everyone can enjoy the content on any job"(You should be reward more if you can lowman the content, not getting punished)

And that just makes the game less fun and less challenging over all.

So since stuff will never be fixed, SE should go back to their old way of doing things? You know make event, job, whatever; and when it doesn't work they abandon it and introduce something else that kinda does what the original thing was supposed to?

* RDM isn't the hybrid you envisioned? Old SE way was(and kind is, so meh. but w/e...) let's NOT build on the areas its mainly lacking-let's add new jobs to embody those ideals. Enter BLU then later SCH. RDM left to languish.

* Besieged not exactly working as intended? Old SE way, leave it broke for years and introduce a whole new expansion that takes another stab at it - enter Campaign.

Could do more, but really even you should get my point by now. SE is now, after the better part of a decade, finally trying to adjust in a much more timely fashion. Not to forget actually trying to open some sort of dialog with the player base. I've been pretty critical of SE in the past here and elsewhere, but they are finally headed in the direction of the right track and if taking time to actually try to balance jobs(not that it will ever happen to anyone's full satisfaction), i'm all for it.

[Ryce]

I have been turned away from VW once or twice for not having a relic, but I've been invited to the group 98/100 times. I think it's great how job-diversity-friendly the event is. That being said, we definitely need more content that encourages the use of any job you want.

How about an assault-like event for low man groups that parses the jobs in your group and populates the area accordingly. There could be a special set of mobs matched to each job (maybe grouped by family) and a boss that has weaknesses (and strengths) based on the players' jobs. Naturally, the enemies triggered by some jobs would be weaker than those spawned by other jobs (true balance is hard to find), so players would identify the "preferred jobs". This could be countered by a global system (similar to Dominion) that would effect available drops/pops based on mob family levels.

Example: WHM, MNK, WAR turns out to be the most efficient group. This group causes frogs, worms, and rabbits to spawn. All these mobs are squishy, so most groups enter with this set up. With each clear, however, these mob families level up and become harder for the next group. In addition, the likeliness of the frog NM (which drops the uber WHM gear) spawning decreases substantially. The only way to reduce the level of the frogs, and increase the visibility of the frog NM, is to raise the level of other mob families. This is done by clearing the even with other jobs.

This is an over-simplification, but I think you get the idea. A dynamic battle system like this would not only allow for, but encourage the use of every job in the game.