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  1. #1
    Player Hayward's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San d'Oria
    Posts
    325
    Character
    Hayward
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99

    SoA content for ALL 20 jobs...

    Before the Developers even think of announcing the starting content for Seekers of Adoulin, I'd like to know whether or not they have acted positively in creating content and events that are proof against the exclusion of nearly 3/4 of the jobs in the game by "professional" forum sites and the sheep who parrot their talking points. This was the only aspect of Abyssea that rubbed me the wrong way and is what keeps me from even thinking about Voidwatch (anyone saying they haven't seen "R/M/E DD only" shouts is an unbelievably bad liar).

    I want to see content that is accessible to any and every job, whether their weapons are Relic, Empyrean, Mythic, Magian, or just store-bought. Exclusionary content at this point will only accelerate the demise of this franchise.
    (21)
    Hayward: Cerberus-San d'Oria

    5/5 +1: Cirque [4/5], Tantra [4/5], Ferine [4/5], Estoqueur's [1/5], Sylvan, Navarch's [1/5], Savant's, Orison [1/5], Charis [2/5]

    5/5 +2: Creed, Caller's, Unkai, Iga, Raider's, Lancer's, Mavi, Ravager's, Goetia, Bale, Aoidos'

  2. #2
    Player Slaxx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    96
    Character
    Slaxx
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    DRG Lv 99
    No matter what the developers create a quick and efficient strategy will soon be developed. People who want to clear the content quickly and efficiently will use these strategies. If you want to complete content with a less than optimal set-up then you are free to set up your own runs. People who use these strategies are not sheep, they are some of the few capable of researching a fight and getting a group together for it. Personally if I'm farming seals with my Linkshell then a sub-optimum set-up is fine. I'm helping a friend and we're hanging out in between pops, chatting etc. If I'm doing seals with a pick up group of people I don't know I definitely am more inclined to just get it over with. The fastest way to get it over with is bringing the optimal group.

    Voidwatch is by far the most job diversity friendly event in the history of the game, if you think otherwise then you don't really know what you're talking about. Yes, there are "R/M/E only" shouts but they are by no means the only shouts out there. I am often able to join those groups, on my Dragoon, with no R/M/E. Will every job be useful for every event? Of course not,that's a pipe dream and to think otherwise is beyond foolish.

    What it comes down to is even if any job can contribute to an event there will often be a job that can contribute more, which speeds up completion, which means people are finished faster. They can then tackle the content again for another chance at rewards or move on with there day. Personally I'd almost always rather get more done for a chance to better my character than get less done and not advance my personal or (in the case of my Linknshell) group goals.
    (6)

  3. #3
    Player Spiritreaver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    211
    Quote Originally Posted by Hayward View Post
    <IMO valid concern>


    Might as well have the dev team build a better human while you are at it.

    Sorry if that comes off as flip, but it really doesn't matter how well content is setup out of the gate, its still going to be used by gamers. And gamers are just human beings.
    (4)

  4. #4
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    5,066
    Character
    Tahngarthor
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    edit: well yeah I agree with you but creating content where literally every job is "useful" is a nearly impossible task without resorting to weird gmmicks.
    (3)
    Last edited by Alhanelem; 12-22-2012 at 03:01 PM.

    Someone care to tell me what's wrong with a couple Yukes?
    Check out http://ffxi.gamerescape.com- the new home of FFXIcleopedia and its founders!

  5. #5
    Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    391
    Quote Originally Posted by Alhanelem View Post
    there will be 22 jobs and of course there will be content for all of them. Unless you mean "where all of them are useful" but that's an almost impossible task without silly gimmicks.
    Would a WoE/Limbus style event with paths designed for specific job combinations be a silly gimmick? Several different paths (which they can continually add to, which is perfect for a launch event) with only certain jobs being able to enter certain paths and the rewards being for those jobs only, with an overarching final Proto-Ultima/Omega style boss path.

    I certainly wouldn't want the entire game to play like that, but it would be a welcome change to something like Nyzul Isle where every job wants to obtain the rewards but only a handful are ever going to be worthwhile for it. If they actually balance such an event properly they could actually make it quite enjoyable with alternative strategies; various jobs can have multiple roles which such an event can highlight, and of course there are plenty of aspects of some jobs which are out right worthless most of the time which they can practically balance the event around.
    (4)

  6. #6
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    5,066
    Character
    Tahngarthor
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    i can't say I wouldn't mind a series of dungeons or whatever that specifically required a certain job combination (and specifically rewarded those jobs), but if the only way to make various jobs feel wanted is to arbitrarily lock out this job and that job from a particular fight is still a kind of a lame way to make those jobs more used. There already exist solo battlefields that change depending on the job you are, and that's cool and all, but I want to be invited to a party on <insert job here> because it is beneficial, not because SE said only this job (or set of jobs) is allowed to participate.

    In other words, its a problem that's more solvable by the right job adjustments than by specifically tailoring content- I suppose you could argue, however, that SE is better at making content to include specific jobs than actually making those jobs used more in general.
    (3)

    Someone care to tell me what's wrong with a couple Yukes?
    Check out http://ffxi.gamerescape.com- the new home of FFXIcleopedia and its founders!

  7. #7
    Player hiko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    774
    Character
    Meuporg
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Slaxx View Post
    No matter what the developers create a quick and efficient strategy will soon be developed. People who want to clear the content quickly and efficiently will use these strategies. If you want to complete content with a less than optimal set-up then you are free to set up your own runs. People who use these strategies are not sheep, they are some of the few capable of researching a fight and getting a group together for it. Personally if I'm farming seals with my Linkshell then a sub-optimum set-up is fine. I'm helping a friend and we're hanging out in between pops, chatting etc. If I'm doing seals with a pick up group of people I don't know I definitely am more inclined to just get it over with. The fastest way to get it over with is bringing the optimal group.

    Voidwatch is by far the most job diversity friendly event in the history of the game, if you think otherwise then you don't really know what you're talking about. Yes, there are "R/M/E only" shouts but they are by no means the only shouts out there. I am often able to join those groups, on my Dragoon, with no R/M/E. Will every job be useful for every event? Of course not,that's a pipe dream and to think otherwise is beyond foolish.

    What it comes down to is even if any job can contribute to an event there will often be a job that can contribute more, which speeds up completion, which means people are finished faster. They can then tackle the content again for another chance at rewards or move on with there day. Personally I'd almost always rather get more done for a chance to better my character than get less done and not advance my personal or (in the case of my Linknshell) group goals.
    imo the issue is not that " there will often be a job that can contribute more," but that those jobs are the same for every event, and other jobs are useless in every event

    Quote Originally Posted by Sotek View Post
    Would a WoE/Limbus style event with paths designed for specific job combinations be a silly gimmick? Several different paths (which they can continually add to, which is perfect for a launch event) with only certain jobs being able to enter certain paths and the rewards being for those jobs only, with an overarching final Proto-Ultima/Omega style boss path.
    half agree. having event where unwanted jobs shine is nice, having people unable to help/play with friends because they don't have said jobs and can't even enter the area isn't
    (1)

  8. #8
    Player Kincard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    588
    Character
    Kincard
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 99
    People need to learn to distinguish the difference between barring people without REMs and barring certain jobs. REMs becoming required only happened because SE made it so much easier to obtain them. Back when relics were something only very, very few people had it would've been absurd to ask that even one member of your party have one. If it wasn't REMs, it'd be something else (Armor). Other games have this built into dungeon seekers by just having items have their own item level values. It's just something that will naturally happen if you have some items be better than other items. The only real reason you didn't see it happen back at 75 cap as often was because there was so little good gear to really choose from.

    You could say that they should design content that can be beaten without REMs, but the fact is that most of the current stuff in the game CAN be beaten without REMs, it's just that nobody wants to because they can find someone who does have one just spending a couple extra minutes looking.
    (6)
    Last edited by Kincard; 12-22-2012 at 07:26 PM.

  9. #9
    Player Eri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    ドイツ
    Posts
    781
    Character
    Erila
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Hayward View Post
    ..... saying they haven't seen "R/M/E DD only" shouts is an unbelievably bad liar

    I was on Sylph Server until quite recently and saw those shouts. However, since i transfered to Odin i didn't see them!
    This may be due to my Japanese play hours thou...
    (0)
    Odin Server

    lv99 DNC ~ PUP ~ THF ~ 98 SMN ~ 93 WHM
    Gute Mädchen kommen in den Himmel ! Böse Mädchen kommen überall hin !!

  10. #10
    Player
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Taco Bell
    Posts
    654
    This sort of content would likely come in the form of solo or duo quests, as soon as a full party comes into play people want to just throw more WARs at it and refuse to listen to any alternatives. That's the problem with so many jobs, the devs give all of the required tools to a few jobs and the rest are told to sit on the sidelines or spend time building a Relic or Emp and leveling + gearing an entire job just to participate in a single piece of content for maybe 1 or 2 upgrades to another job.

    I think it's crap that we have so much variety in job choice yet we only ever use a few of those for anything but farming while the few that have all of the necessary abilities and weapon proficiencies get to do all of the content in the game. Devs might as well just delete everything after the initial 6 jobs and replace the RDM and THF slots with SAM and DRK.
    (1)

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