On Red Mage melee...

[TybudX]

If you think this, if you actually think this, you are either trolling or haven't even bothered reading any of the previous 130+ pages of this thread. This argument has been put to rest more times than I can bother counting.

The answer is no.

Why:

Post a video showing all the downtime a RDM mule had, as if melee would have been it's best option?
Post a video with a RDM mule getting lots of downtime against a VW mob?
Post a video of a RDM mule getting lots of downtime while a COR mule is getting the same amount of ridiculous downtime?

You had to have thought you were doing something clever by posting that video, but all you did was make yourself look like a twit. I'm not trolling you at all, either, I really do think you are an idiot. Sorry for not spelling it out more clearly.

edit - I incorrectly attributed the video that was posted to Rayik when it was Hyrist that posted it. I'm not changing my original post because I'm not a back pedaling douche like that.

[Rayik]

Why:

Post a video showing all the downtime a RDM mule had, as if melee would have been it's best option?
Post a video with a RDM mule getting lots of downtime against a VW mob?
Post a video of a RDM mule getting lots of downtime while a COR mule is getting the same amount of ridiculous downtime?

You had to have thought you were doing something clever by posting that video, but all you did was make yourself look like a twit. I'm not trolling you at all, either, I really do think you are an idiot. Sorry for not spelling it out more clearly.

What are you talking about? I never posted a video...

More proof you aren't even reading the posts in this thread. Take your trolling elsewhere.

[TybudX]

What are you talking about? I never posted a video...

More proof you aren't even reading the posts in this thread. Take your trolling elsewhere.

I guess it was Hyrist, sorry. Point stands, my remarks in response were clearly sarcastic. Somebody trying to use that video as an example of how much downtime RDMs had during tougher NM or HNM type fights, but it's a stupid example at best due to all the things I previously mentioned.

edit - If that's not clear, how could you possibly think what I said in response to your response was serious?

And by the way, I have no problem with RDM meleeing when the condition is right. The way I figure it, if a COR can melee for TP, a RDM can melee for TP. If the COR isn't up front, the RDM shouldn't be up front. I don't see any reason why SE can't release gear with good combat stats that has RDM on them, and in fact they seem to be doing that a lot more lately. I just get irked seeing so many stupid and either useless or overpowered ideas getting tossed around when most of the pro-melee RDMs are blind to the things they are already getting. I don't think altering RDMs' core job mechanics are the right way to go about making it better at melee... COR is a prime example of a job that does just fine as a DD based mostly on gear selection. It helps that they have a strong buffer present at all times, but honestly RDM shouldn't function as a 'good melee DD' without strong buffs. It should just be functional. Go look at how COR melee stacks up when they don't have outside buffs, not just their own. They are terrible without Dia II/III, Haste, etc. Asking for RDM to be stronger than COR without any outside intervention is too much, in my opinion.

And I know what's coming next. Look at COR damage even when they are doing ranged TP vs. RDM damage when they nuke, blah blah blah. COR does two thing: Rolls and damage. They can cure, via support job, but so can WAR or MNK or any other job. RDM has native spells that it is best off using from a distance, supplemented with nukes or healing as necessary. The obvious division of labour is right there in front of you.

[TybudX]

Back pedaling would be changing my post to pretend I said something I didn't. Slandering in spoken out loud in public; this could be seen as libelous. I made a mistake in that he didn't post the video, but my assessment was otherwise spot on.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Back pedaling would be changing my post to pretend I said something I didn't. Slandering in spoken out loud in public; this could be seen as libelous. I made a mistake in that he didn't post the video, but my assessment was otherwise spot on.

You quoted the wrong person.... Thus the whole post was false and not spot on.

PS. Perhaps you should reread the rules you agreed to when you joined this forum, insulting people is not allowed, this isn't BG.

[Rayik]

edit - I incorrectly attributed the video that was posted to Rayik when it was Hyrist that posted it. I'm not changing my original post because I'm not a back pedaling douche like that.

And you still left my quote there, even though the rest of your response is falsely aimed at it. Get out of here with that stuff, man. Hello Ignore button.

[Hyrist]

Ty's been on my ignore list after I realized the bulk of the post history was either inflammatory or blocked afterward by an Admin.

Again, there's no point for hyperbole here.

The video was put to make a point that "RDM playing to it's best." is not only grosely subjective, but often downright unnecessary. Again, a RDM was to help and the job done by him could have been done as a mule, that's not an effective argument for a caster RDM. Trying to say that they never stop casting or that their job in endgame is horrendously busy.

This isn't ToAU anymore.

Anyways. Talking about the flaws in RDM's buffing game isn't for this thread, as the topic is about melee.

I'm still not too keen on SE stating that they won't tie in any of our debuffing aspect to our melee. On fodder mobs, debuffs get to really have a lasting effects save for Dia which helps for faster kills. Tieing it into our melee gives a bit more flexibility onto our debuffing role without having to worry about giving RDM's 'AoEs' That SE seems to be so scared of giving.

Still, seeing that they're going to be improving Temper to increase with Enhancing skill helps their idea on damage. There's just too little info to go on at this point though.

[cidbahamut]

I dunno Hyrist. Mules don't seem like a good basis for making judgements about much of anything. I did Voidwatch last night and I was chain casting the whole night long, to the point where I mistook an empty mp pool for getting hit with stun or petrify a few times. Take that with a grain of salt, but that's how things played out.

[Hyrist]

Ok, if I give that to you, just off the basis that I used a mule as an example there are two glaring flaws in that argument.

First, you give no context as to your fight. You could have been trying to run it understaffed or just been blowing your MP pool to blow your MP pool.

Second, Voidwatch is not the whole of Final Fantasy XI. It is a single NM Tree in a game FULL of NM trees among other events. You might be casting non stop for one (_)NM and be twittering your thumbs for another. That's just how the game works at it's most basic. This is why the context neglected in point 1 is much more important.

Note: Neither of these RDMs are mules, nor are they chaincasting the entire fight.

So while using mules as an extreme example might not have been the best example, it does show how far a RDM can end up with their hands in their pockets, even in Voidwatch. That's not necessarily a bad thing if they're trying to stay ready for stun, or have a specific role they need to do. They don't NEED to be chain casting all the time.

So let's not state that you never pause in your casts all the time every time.

I'm just trying to keep this conversation down on the level with one another. It's great to be in situations that you're busy if all you want to do is cast. But it's not an overall standard for the game, especially currently.

If anything this also kinda points out something about Debuffs. It's difficult when there's multiple RDMs to keep themselves going around when there are multiples, except for the case of stun due to the timer (though as I stated elsewhere, it doesn't have to be the RDM who stuns.) Having many of them makes the duties lighter for one of them and when they are present it really shows. (Though, it's the only way to stack up fully powered Slows, Paralyzes, and Blinds due to the merit system.)

But in these particular situations, I don't think RDM has enough tools to convince them to go Melee either, though Savelle might disagree depending on the context. The idea of a "Durable person dealing damage." would be more appealing if the emphasis on skillchaining was higher.

[cidbahamut]

Wah wah wah, I didn't fraps the fight for you and write a thesis on it. I'm sorry, ok?