Throwing WS?

[AyinDygra]

I decided to revive this thread, rather than create a new one.

Having given much thought to the subject, here's a more detailed look at the concept:

There is an opportunity here, since "Thrown weapons" cannot have "weaponskills", to give each job that has "throwing weapon skill" its own unique flavor; there are a few creative twists I'd take on them, to make a set of abilities that are job specific. Some may cost TP, while others will simply act like new job abilities. Some, but not all, could potentially be included in skillchains (as I mentioned in my older post).

Due to the dual nature of thrown weapons (consumable or returning), these Job Abilities would have to be "disabled" when the wrong type of thrown weapon is equipped. This removes several issues that have been brought up in opposition to this concept in the past.

(These are all examples, and are in no way meant to express the entire list of possible abilities. I am not always listing recasts, durations (instant or not) or any other costs associated with these abilities, nor damage calculations, unless I think it's important to the concept. Overall, I think they should all have under 5min recasts; for most, it wouldn't hurt to have 1min recasts or much less.)

* Ninja: Throwing Arts

(ammo - Shuriken only) Thorn in the Side: Throw a Shuriken at a spot that is hard to reach, creating great annoyance. (Provoke-like effect and Damage over Time, recast 30sec)

(ammo - Shuriken only) Armor Wedge: Lodge a Shuriken in the enemy's body so those attacking the Shuriken cause extra damage to the enemy. (removes partial physical resistance and causes each hit landed on the enemy to inflict "Shuriken Pain" additional damage effect)

(ammo - Shuriken only) Shadow Shuriken: Chance of throwing an extra Shuriken (no ammo consumed) for each Utsusemi shadow active. (Not the same as Sange: Not always 100% and does not consume shadows or ammo)

(ammo - Scrolls only) Ninjutsu Secrets: Using a Far Eastern Ninjutsu scroll, enhance elemental damage of Ninjutsu for the duration and make them "area of effect" rather than single target.

Sange should be on this list now. (and it could use an update too)

* Thief: Concealed Weapon

(ammo - Darts only) Target Vulnerability: Throw darts right past the enemy's defenses. (ignores defense, higher accuracy, and additional effect on the dart always takes effect)

(Range - Returning only) Returning Impact: For the duration, ranged attacks will hit both on the initial pass and on the return path.

(ammo or ranged!) Ricochet: For the duration, send your ranged attacks bouncing off objects to obscure the source of your attacks. No enmity is gained by the attacks.

(ammo or ranged!) Distraction: Your ranged attack briefly distracts the enemy so you can strike when their attention is directed elsewhere. Removes direction restrictions on all actions against the enemy. (including things like Overwhelm & Sneak Attack) Increases "steal"-type ability success rates.

* Puppetmaster: Transmit

(Requires an animator in Range slot) (see: Pup forum thread) Essentially, using attachments to cause specific effects or attacks when commanded by the Puppetmaster.

* Beastmaster: Whiplash

(range - whip only) Whip Crack: For a short duration, this increases the "killer effect" against the current target, or gives killer effect to the Beastmaster and pet if they do not already possess it.

(range - whip only) Lasso: Damaging attack, plus binds the target for a short duration.

(range - whip only) Leash: (5min duration, 1min recast) For the duration, the Beastmaster's pet will only attack the Beastmaster's current target.

(range - whip only) Lashing: Rapid whip lashes (2-5 hits) and inflicts bleeding damage over time.

* Corsair: Trick Dice

(range - "trick dice" only) Roll Dice: Does damage based on the number rolled. The resulting number is remembered in a "Slots" Icon.

(range - "trick dice" only) Slots: After 3 results have accumulated through "Roll Dice", they can be used to produce a "Slots effect" and are consumed.

Some trick dice may have non-number sides that create additional effects, and might act like wild cards in the 3-roll "slots effect." I won't go into a list of possible effects... just think of Setzer in FF3/6j, and Cait Sith in FF7.

* Dancer: Flamenco

(range - Chakram) Zapateado: For the duration, along with using rythmic foot stomps, attacks are supplemented by throwing a chakram with increased force.

(range - Chakram) Palmas: Rythmic hand clapping increases the rate at which weapons can be thrown effectively by the entire party. (Each of the Dancer's tosses could have a chance at granting a status buff from a small list, short durations)

Zapateado and Palmas can be used simultaneously.

* Ranger: Trick Shots

(ammo or range!) Shadowbind: Target cannot move. Attacking the target does not break the bind effect.

(ammo or range!) Shadowcuffs: Target cannot auto-attack or use TP moves or Job Abilities.

(ammo or range!) Shadowmuzzle: Target cannot cast magic.

(range and ammo) Target MP: This ranged attack does damage to MP, not HP.

(range and ammo) Tableturner: Does higher damage, the higher the enemy's defense is.

(range and ammo) Cheap Shot: Ignores enemy defense.

(range and ammo) Enchanted Ammo: Deals non-elemental magic damage to target.(maybe just add special ammo to make this happen)

* Monk: Blitz (Reference Sabin's elemental blitzes in FF3/6j)

(range - Returning only) Air Blades: Air elemental damage, multiple hits, cone AoE, (slashing damage?)
(no ranged weapon required) Rising Phoenix: Fire elemental damage, AoE centered on Monk.
(no ranged weapon required) Shock Wave: Earth elemental damage, direct line AoE.
(no ranged weapon required) Aura Bolt: Holy elemental damage, direct line AoE.

* Summoner: Subdue (whips - Rydia)

(range - whip only) Entangle: Causes Bind, Gravity or Paralysis effect on the enemy.

(range - whip only) Astral Rope: Reset the recast time for one avatar so they can be summoned immediately.

* Samurai: Toss

(ammo) Perforate: Dispel one beneficial status on the target. (maybe better as a new Samurai-only archery weaponskill.)

(ammo - fireworks only?) Fireworks: Cause damage (based on throwing skill) along with fireworks. (allow Samurai to equip fireworks in ammo slot? Anyway, I'm not sure why Samurai had fireworks in FFX-2, but there ya go)

* Warrior: Hurling

(The basic thrown weapon abilities suggested by Kingfury this thread (link))
Doubled Mark, Goliath Shot, Toe Shot sound good to me.

* Odd Jobs... Strangely enough, these jobs (see below) have Throwing Skill. However, I don't see mages throwing things at monsters... rather, I'd see them throwing magical attacks based on their weaponry, like in FF2/4j, where using a "rod" or "staff" would cause a low tier casting of the related elemental spell, or a non-elemental ranged attack. Perhaps allow mages to equip a staff or rod in their "Range" weapon slot for this ability.

Bard
Cacophony: Cause damage with terrible singing or music. Maybe give them cymbols... or not. (Chance to dispel a positive effect or disrupt casting?)

Black Mage
Channeling: Cause elemental (or non-elemental) damage from a distance, using equipped staff's element, no MP cost, damage may be close to a Tier 1 spell.

White Mage
Restoring: Cure target with your "attack", no MP cost, healing may be as strong as cure 1.

Red Mage
Channeling and Restoring

Scholar (new ranged weapon: Grimoires for Scholar)
Grimoire Toss: Throw the book at 'em. Those are pretty hefty books. They'd do some damage if they landed on an enemy. Several elemental versions could be added to alter the damage type inflicted. (They could just be summoned above the enemy, and then drop onto their head.)

I think that covers every job with Throwing Skill. These seem to be really unique touches added to the jobs. Hopefully others (including the devs) agree!

[Glamdring]

Or they don't want to do it, LOL.

I think that it would be very interesting, make WS for throwing weapons but only for returning weapons in my opinion. So DNC,BLU,NIN,THF would have access to those. Specially Chakrams, one example from previous games is Rinoa from FF8. And whishing star being one of them. Not just the name of a weapon.

hell no, make them for all throwing weapons, I wanna make money making shuriken and darts, tathlums and grenades!

[Orenwald]

The problem I think is because Weaponskills run a specific script, so either your WS would always use up your BOOMERANG, or would NEVER use your shuriken, because they can't get it to check to see if it's a returning weapon or not... and that's why we don't have Throwing Weaponskills.

[AyinDygra]

The problem I think is because Weaponskills run a specific script, so either your WS would always use up your BOOMERANG, or would NEVER use your shuriken, because they can't get it to check to see if it's a returning weapon or not... and that's why we don't have Throwing Weaponskills.

I just want to point out that my concept bypasses the issue of weaponskills entirely, making all of these new "Job Abilities" that sometimes use features that are related to weaponskills. They are entirely unbound by the restrictions of the weaponskill code.

[Orenwald]

I just want to point out that my concept bypasses the issue of weaponskills entirely, making all of these new "Job Abilities" that sometimes use features that are related to weaponskills. They are entirely unbound by the restrictions of the weaponskill code.

The problem there is I don't think they can code a Job Ability to do "Atleast 100TP, consume all TP" like a weaponskill does. :X

[AyinDygra]

... Dancer waltzes... have the code to require a certain amount of TP, and then the job ability consumes it. I'm pretty sure they can just code in to take all the TP away, if they want the abilities to take all TP (These could be different in that respect, and simply cost differing amounts of TP)

The only abilities on that list that I'd mark as "TP" spending, would be Shadow Shuriken, Lashing, Target MP, Tableturner, Cheap Shot and Enchanted Ammo, all 4 monk Blitzes, Goliath Shot and Toe Shot, and Perforate. And if these are made to take TP, I'd expect them to have the effect of "Wild Flourish" to participate in skillchains as well.

And even some of those, I could see just being timed job abilities with long recasts.

[AyinDygra]

More Jobs with Ammo-based Abilities

* Dragoon: Javelin (These can all be used during "Dragon Flight"-extended jumps as well as on the ground.)

(ammo - Angon) Angon: We place the merit ability into this sub-menu for organization purposes.
(ammo - Angon?) Dragon Heart: This has the Lancet/Dragon Sword effect of past games. Drain+Aspir. Stronger vs Dragons.
(ammo - Angon?) Steel Rain: Throw a spear to deal piercing damage only while in the air during a "Dragon Flight"-extended jump.
(See my Dragoon thread about Dragon Flight, and an alternate implementation of Dragon Heart)

* Engineer: Sabotage

(ammo - Sabotage kit) Wrench: Random, short duration fits of terror along with damage each time, on machine enemies.
(ammo - Sabotage kit) Yellow Goop: Stops machines from changing "Modes": Mammets, Automaton frames & Omega 2/4 leg switch.
(ammo - Sabotage kit) CCB Polymer Pump II: Inflicts Amnesia on any machine enemy.
(ammo - Sabotage kit) Spider Drone: Causes TP moves to backfire as they try to hit the spider drone crawling on them.
(See Engineer thread for more detailed info)

* Judgemaster: Law Book (or gavel?)

(ammo - Law Book) Guilty: Judging an enemy to be guilty, you throw the book at them. Deals damage based on how strong of a penalty effect is currently active on the target.
(ammo - Law Book) Contempt: For repeated violations against the Judge, find them in contempt. Terror effect. (lasts longer depending on the strength of their "Penalized" status; misses when the enemy is not penalized.)
(ammo - Law Book) Overruled: Prevent the use of the ability or spell currently being readied by the enemy. Similar to stun, but stops that specific ability or spell from being used for the duration.
(See Judgemaster thread for more detailed info)

* Chemist: Item Tossing

(stash-item potions) Splash: Use a helpful potion on another alliance member.
(stash-item attack items) Toss: Throw harmful items at enemies.
(stash-item potions) Diffuser: Use a single helpful potion on your entire party.
(stash-item attack items) Lob: Throw a harmful item at enemies without any distance penalties.
(stash-item attack items) Launch: Increase the destructive force of a harmful item.
(See Chemist job thread for more detailed info)

* Jikuu Sage: Dimensional Weapon

(They don't get a whole category, similar to the other mages.)
Duration: 5min
Recast: 5min
This "stance" allows you to use melee attacks from a distance by attacking through a fold in space-time. (This is a nod to the past FF games where characters took a step forward, shook their weapons a couple times, then took a step back, while their strikes hit enemies across the screen, never getting close to touching each other.)
* Auto-attacks strike the enemy "from a safe distance".
* Probably won't be able to put weaponskills into this ability, but would be nice.
* Drains 3 MP from the JKS for each attack. (If you have less than 3 MP, you get the "Enemy is too far away" message.)
* I think all FFXI monsters have this ability while they're chasing us... (haha?)

* Geomancer: Toll

(ranged - Bell) Death Knell: Weakens the enemy resistance to Geomancy enfeebles and slashing defense.
(ranged - Bell) Chime: Trigger "weaker" region-based Geomancy on the targets of your ranged attacks for the duration.
(ranged - Bell) Ring: Increase the duration and potency of enfeebles caused by Geomancy by using "ring" periodically.

I have not yet figured out proper ranged category commands for these jobs: Paladin, Blue Mage, Dark Knight, Mimic
Personally, I don't see them using thrown weapon techniques at this point (even though Blue Mage can equip chakrams, without throwing skill.) I just haven't given it enough thought... given enough time, I'm sure I could...

[Twille]

never gonna happen.

[Xilk]

I think a throwing WS would be sweet, Especially for nin and dnc. not sure if anyone else would really merit one.

[Mercer]

I wish they would put something like that... WS for pebbles = Elite