Jobs that need to be fix ASAP.

[Byrth]

WAR is the best DD sub for DNC purely due to Berserk. We don't get the Double Attack because Saber Dance seems to overwrite the trait. Dancer doesn't gain much from any sub relative to other jobs, though.


These are the problems I see for Dancer along with the solutions and justification:
1) High Job Ability delay (the pause in actions after using a job ability) limits our playstyle.
Adjustment:
* Reduce both phases of Job ability delay by 1 second specifically for Steps, Sambas, and Flourishes.
Justification:
Using steps and flourishes costs you multiple attack rounds and commonly is only used to gain TP, which you can also gain by just taking those attack rounds. You might gain less TP by simply attacking, but you're also doing damage at the same time. Due to this, it's not actually worth using Steps and Flourishes unless you're skillchaining or solo. Because you can pretty much only skillchain when you're solo, it's safe to say that Dancer playstyle breaks down when you're in a party. Not good for an alleged support job.


2) Samba viability problems: Sambas are impractical in current events, Sambas other than Haste Samba suck, Haste Samba doesn't matter if you're already capping delay, and in high buff situations there's no difference between DNC main and DNC sub using Haste Samba for any job (the last 5% is irrelevant).
Adjustment:
* Increase Haste Samba for DNC main job to 10% JA Haste base without merits and leave /DNC Samba at 5%.
* Change Haste Samba merits from increasing Haste to adding 2% Haste per merit level to Drain/Aspir Sambas.
* Fix Spheres so that they affect the user.
* Change Sambas so that they're a sphere that gives their effect.
* Change Drain/Aspir Samba so that they calculate maximum Drain amount before forms of delay reduction.
Justification:
The 80% Delay cap can be hit with 25% equipment Haste, 43.75% Magic Haste (the magic haste cap), and 11.25% Job Ability Haste/delay reduction. This last 11.25% is covered by Martial Arts/Dual Wield for 1H jobs and mostly covered by Hasso (10% of it) for 2H jobs. That leaves the last 1.25% for Samba, and both /DNC Samba (5%) and 5/5 Haste Samba DNC Samba (10%) can cap it. This is really pretty insufficient, and means that DNC isn't going to be useful in high buff situations.
Instead of fighting that, I would recommend pushing towards DNC being a buffer/DD hybrid for lowman events. The problem with lowman events at the moment is that you're generally fighting level 75 content and everyone is fighting a different monster, thus not getting Samba. If Samba was a fixed-Sphere effect then this wouldn't matter, and allowing us to put Drain or Aspir on top of that would be very nice.


3) Our Flourish recast timers are too limiting.
Adjustment:
* Reduce Wild Flourish to a 10 second recast
* Eliminate Building Flourish's recast timer, or switch it with Desperate Flourish.
* Reduce the Flourishes III options to a 1 minute recast
Justification:
Wild Flourish is currently the competition for Reverse Flourish especially if the monster has <100% HP, but I find myself unwilling to use it because Reverse Flourish's damage potential is ultimately so much higher and I may want to use that instead during the recast. If the recast was less of an issue, I would be more willing to use it and my playstyle could be more fluid. Similarly, Building Flourish currently sees no use because of JA delay and the fact that it can't be chained together with other WS buffs (like Wild Flourish and Reverse Flourish). If you eliminated it's recast timer, we could do that.
The Flourishes III reduction is less important, but more just a "why not?" kind of suggestion. The only useful flourish from that category at the moment is Climactic Flourish, which has the shortest recast. Why not just reduce all of them to 1 minute so people can use them more freely? It stinks to have a whole category locked out for minutes if you use one of them.


4) Our Waltz abilities share the same recast timer, and this is terrible if you're actually trying to heal.
Adjustment:
* Reduce Curing Waltz IV to a 12 second recast and Curing Waltz V to a 14 second recast.
* Split Waltzes into two categories (odd and even), with Healing Waltz in the even group.
Category 1: Curing Waltz, Curing Waltz III, Curing Waltz V, Divine Waltz
Category 2: Healing Waltz, Curing Waltz II, Curing Waltz IV, Divine Waltz II
Justification:
There are two ways to look at Dancer as a healer. First, you could say that because their job abilities are nearly instant there should be a substantial penalty associated with them in the form of a recast timer. Second, you could say that because their abilities cost TP they should be self-limiting (due to your TP gain) and don't require any substantial penalty beyond that. I am of the second camp. At the moment HP healed/minute is higher than possibly usable for healers like White Mage, so it wouldn't be game breaking if Dancer could spend all the TP they make and increase their HP healed/minute. Splitting Waltzes into two categories still leaves them somewhat recast dependent while allowing us more variety with our healing.


5) Samba duration is too short.
Adjustment:
* Increase Samba durations to 3 minutes, with AF1+1 head adding another minute and Saber Dance merits adding 15 seconds per merit level for a total possible duration of 5 minutes.
* Double Samba TP costs.
Justification:
Reapplying buffs is tedious, especially when we have essentially no reason to switch between the buffs. Making Sambas cost twice as much and last twice as long reduces the annoyance for the player while still providing the same penalty.


There are more adjustments to be made (like making Flourishes III useful), but I'll stop here for today because it's time for post-Thanksgiving Dinner.

[dragonfate]

Not everyone wants their DNC to be a main healer, and if you do I'm pretty sure you're in the absolute minority. If you don't mention /WAR it's you who doesn't know DNC at all. Also, DNC/NIN has immensely higher survival potential than DNC/SAM will ever have. The only reason to sub /SAM over /NIN is if you want damage, and then /WAR will win in almost every situation. Even the TP gain from /WAR is almost as good as from /SAM, because of the 10% extra Double Attack. And since Hasso doesn't work for one-handed weapons, /SAM only offers Meditate to get an insignificant amount of TP every other eternity and a self-SC every third eternity (which may not even deal more damage, depending on the weapon skills you have to use to form a skillchain).

ok i did not say any thing about /war because i did not try that combo yet and i dont want to say any thing bad or good about a combo that i did not try yet so . and i know for a fact that a /sam last longer then /nin if you now how to use dancer the /sam way. and i'll try the /war way and get back to you on that o and i do know dancer ooooooo soooooooo good and if i didnt then i would not see what you are talking about how a /war would be good for a dancer job. but i do see what you mean and i am so with you on the /war and thats why i am going to try it out but so far /sam is my fov. and i fixed up #38 of what i think

[Mirage]

How does /sam last longer? If I have survivability issues, it's because of waltz timers, not because I'm out of TP.

[dragonfate]

How does /sam last longer? If I have survivability issues, it's because of waltz timers, not because I'm out of TP.

/sam does last longer if you know how to use dancer and when to use waltz and when to use the 2hr.

[nyheen]

if you say that then you dont know the dancer job at all the 2 best sub jobs for dancers are
(1 being /SAM true dancers)
(2 being /nin ok dancers)
and you dont use the Dancer JA's at all

dont know about you and the others but i keep up with my ja as /nin + busting out 4k+ (or higher on most NM) Rudra's Storm while soloing NM DD/tanking at the sametime with no down time. since i dont have to keep wasting time spamming cure, all that can go to dmg. i can name so many NMs that would eat up a /sam, sobek, Bennu Chlevnik Chione, etc the list goes on.

[dragonfate]

i did sobek with /Sam and i kick his ass and i don't have that ws yet and my eva. is caped and i am a Mithra. so then again we Mithra's have high Dexterity makes for great Accuracy for TP gain, which is vital for a Dancer and Mithra's high Agility provides the extra evasion. and there you go Mithra dancers can do the nms the /Sam way or the /war way too and l do not know about a any other race in the game but a Mithra dancer should be able to kill/tank them with little help from another healer just like the /nin would so give me a healer and ill kill all tho's nm's just to prove you worng about kiling tho's nms with /sam. but for /war i have not tried yet so for thos who /war i cant say any thing for you guys

[Mirage]

/sam does last longer if you know how to use dancer and when to use waltz and when to use the 2hr.

And what is the right way to use dancer? When is the right time to use waltzes and the twohour?

[Ordoric]

dragon this is just a trolling of how perfect you think you are not how the job is broken so you can just stop. seriously do you need this god blessid ego boost max ur haste in gear for dps presto and steps you can reverce flourish faster than most sams can meditate you wana solo sc use wild flourish you wana crit climactic flourish triple and double forced you can use them striking flourish and tenitary flourish so just stop and learn how to gear merit and play it DEVS CAN LOCK THIS POOR excuse for a thread

[nyheen]

dragon this is just a trolling of how perfect you think you are not how the job is broken so you can just stop. seriously do you need this god blessid ego boost max ur haste in gear for dps presto and steps you can reverce flourish faster than most sams can meditate you wana solo sc use wild flourish you wana crit climactic flourish triple and double forced you can use them striking flourish and tenitary flourish so just stop and learn how to gear merit and play it DEVS CAN LOCK THIS POOR excuse for a thread

welll said, dont want this to turn into another drg/dnc cure and do better dmg then drg/mage thing><!.lol

[Ordoric]

actualy reminding me of the elites rdm forums /wrist