Splitting JA timers

[Yugl]

Lets say you have 1hr of a jumps (60*60 = 3600s):

New system with merits: 248 rounds of TP (20 rounds of Soul Jump; 40 rounds of Spirit Jump)

Old system with merits: 252 rounds of TP (36 rounds of Soul Jump; 72 rounds of Spirit Jump)

Should get more damage from the old system too.

Method (In case of an error):

Jump/Old Spirit Jump: 50s
High Jump/Old Soul Jump: 100s
New Spirit Jump: 90s
New Soul Jump: 180s

X = Jump recast
3600/X = N jumps
(N Jumps)*(TP Multiplier)

Spirit Jump TP Multiplier = 2
Soul Jump TP Multiplier = 3

In terms of TP and on a 6 minute rotation:
6 Jumps
3 High Jumps
4 Spirit Jumps
2 Soul Jumps
High and normal Jump are increased 20% with full merits.
1.2*(6+3)+8+6 = 24.8 hits of TP without merits

Currently in 6 minutes:
6 Spirit Jumps
3 Soul Jumps
Spirit and Soul Jump are increased 20% with merits.
12+9 = 21 hits of TP*1.2 = 25.2 hits of TP without merits

Now, you obviously do more damage and rely less on having a Wyvern out, but I would be really hesitant to endorse the new option as superior from a high-haste DD standpoint.

Splitting timers is a nerf for DRG under those conditions. If you're going to split them, have . . .

Jump: 1min
High Jump: 2min
Spirit Jump: 1min
Soul Jump: 2min

Don't forget that we often combine 2hrs with high haste situations, so JA-delay will affect total damage as well. For each jump, we embrace a 1s delay, so if you're using four jumps during the 2hr, you already cut 4s from the delay itself. Give 1-2s for the ability as well (Assumes super fast macro smashing) and you're looking at 8-12s just using the first round of jumps. Quite frankly, an SP like Mighty Strikes would offer more during high haste for DRG. Not to mention, this 2hr doesn't work comfortably with our other 2hr since taking advantage of high haste and using jumps contradict each other.

[Tanama]

I agree with my fellow Dragoons. Extending the recast timer on Spirit Jump and Soul Jump will impact Dragoon negatively. Making Dragoon weaker will worsen the current situation.

I agree with Ryx's suggestion:

If the devs really want to split jump timers, then please do it like this:
Jump: Returned to its original 90 seconds recast
High Jump: Returned to its orginal 180 seconds recast
Spirit Jump: Left at its current 60 seconds recast
Soul Jump: Left at its current 120 seconds recast
Dragoon Group 1 Merits:

• Change Jump merits to Spirit Jump merits
• Change High Jump merits to Soul Jump merits

If it's done that way, leave Spirit Jump and Soul Jump as they are. I feel Jump and High Jump should be strengthened regardless. Dragoon definitely needs a boost to it's damage because at the moment, we are an unpopular choice for high-end content unless you have a Ryunohige.

The wyvern needs a damage dealing boost and enemies need reduction to breath resistance so that Wyvern Breath actually matters. At this time, the wyvern is solely used to strengthen Spirit and Soul Jump and an occasional heal. Damage-wise it does almost nothing on high-level content because the wyvern is either dead or incapacitated from the heavy aoe damage and status effects.

Everyone else explained the job ability delay issue a lot better than I could. Make note of this and I sincerely hope the development team decides to aid us rather than weaken us further.

[Frapp]

I too am for keeping the timers consolidated (Jump + Spirit; High Jump + Soul). The math and JA delay everyone is talking about, I agree with.

I would like to make the additional point against splitting timers with what we were told a long time ago by SE. That we are running out of "slots" in the code for job abilities. Yes, we are about to add 20 new abilities in a coming update. Those were originally going to be on a shared timer, but progress being made with the coding is allowing them to be separate. Also, that same work is being done so that 2 new jobs can be introduced with Seekers of Adoulin.

I don't know how many JA "slots" the developers are going to be able to add, but we should consider that the number will be just as finite as it is now. GEO and RNF are going to need the bulk of the new JAs. Each job will probably get a handful of new abilities as well. I would much rather leave DRG's JAs (and by extension, most of the shared JAs on other jobs) alone simply to be able to get more abilities down the line.

[Nightfox]

Can always split the timers with no change to recasts.

[Tennotsukai]

yeah, I don't agree with the proposed idea either. I would love to be able to see jump and high jump again but not at this cost

[Vivik]

NO! That is all.

[Ophannus]

Yugl I don't think we could utilize both 2hrs effectively since they both require the wyvern to be used. If we use Rouse Wyvern first for the reduced Jump timers then do Spirit Surge, we lose the Wyvern and thus we lost the bonus TP from Spirit/Soul Jump, so you'd have to calculate if losing the bonus TP from Soul Jump/Spirit Jump is worth combining Rouse Wyvern with Spirit Surge for just the 25% JA haste.

[Sp1cyryan]

Greetings!

The post made on the Japanese forums the other day in regards to dragoon was a response to a player asking to have the timers split. This response was not mentioning that the development team would definitely be splitting the timers, it was only illustrating what would have to happen to the new special ability as well as the current jump cool down timers in the event that they were to change. I apologize for there not being an official translation of this and for any confusion.

Basically, IF they were to split the timers the below changes would have to be made to the new special ability and jump abilities:

• New special ability
  • Effect duration: 45 seconds (no change)
  • Recast time for each jump: Increase time from 10 seconds to 15 seconds
• Recast time for each jump
  • Jump: 60 seconds (no change)
  • High Jump: 120 seconds (no change)
  • Spirit Jump: Increase from 60 seconds to 90 seconds
  • Soul Jump: Increase from 120 seconds to 180 seconds
  • Merit points used to reduce Jump/High Jump recast timers will be changed so the effect does not apply to Spirit Jump/Soul Jump

If you feel strongly or have feedback to give on this we would be happy to pass it on to the development team.

In all honesty I would rather Spirit and Soul Jump stay the same timer and Jump and High Jump increased in recast. For the sake of the argument we can not merit the timer of those down, but can on Jump and High Jump.

In all honesty whether you know it or not DRG is behind the output of all the other 2H DDs. If you were truly going for balanced then there is no reason to increase the recast at all. Even with the timers split and kept the same DRG still will still be vastly inferior to its 2H weapon counterparts of WAR, SAM, and DRK.

DRK got a huge buff with last resort and the accompanying diabolic eye merits. What does DRG now get after having become even weaker in comparison? An extra jump that doesn't help in zerging (DRGs don't really get accepted into that due to being, you know, inferior..) and does not level the playing field between the four jobs at all.

On a side note Spirit and Soul Jump are weak when the wyvern dies (ANY high end content). Personally I would rather see the jumps not dependent on the wyvern, but I that will never happen.

[Babekeke]

Well this seems to be a fairly firm "no thanks" to splitting the timers on these terms.

The majority vote seems to be keep spirit/soul on the timers they are, swap merits to spirit/soul, and raise jump/high jump back to their original timers.

Or just leave them adjoined.

[ManaKing]

The big issue I've had with DRG since they added the new jumps is that they are just better than the originals. They become less attractive when your pet is dead, which will happen if you are fighting anything serious. And then you are left with no real choices. Jump and High Jump don't really offer anything outside of Spirit and Soul Jump when your wyvern isn't present except some pre 75 gearing choices that add significantly smaller TP gains VS full strength Spirit and Soul Jumps.

So you split the JA timers AND you penalize Spirit and Soul Jumps. What are DRGs actually getting out of this? Spirit and Soul Jumps were capable of placating DRGs because they offered a direct improvement over what they had originally, and it was very much needed because other jobs were getting much farther ahead. The other jobs are still outclassing DRG, and this solution doesn't offer DRG any sort of direct improvement, unlike plenty of jobs new SP abilities.

For this kind of a change to be valued, Jump and High Jump have to be improved significantly. You could also not increase the recast timers on Spirit and Soul Jumps and keep merits affecting them. Not to mention, can we even use both of our SP abilities together effectively? It really doesn't looks like that is the case, which once again, WAR beats us out hard. Why bring a DRG when you can bring a WAR?

No matter what, DRG needs changes if you expect people to play it in high end content because presently it loses too much when it doesn't have a Wyvern and it loses even more when a mob is strong VS piercing, like Undead are.