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Thread: unbalanced?

  1. #1
    Player Clou777's Avatar
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    unbalanced?

    not sure why sch has access to tier V nukes at lv99 yet only up to tier IV cures
    (0)
    Cloudius

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  2. #2
    Player Zagen's Avatar
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    Because SCH isn't meant to replace WHM in content where a WHM is needed. Just like how having Tier V nukes doesn't make them able to replace BLM where a BLM is needed.
    (4)

  3. #3
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    Also... a SCH can cure with a Cure IV as well as a WHM can cure with Cure V already, if SCH had Cure V then it could cure for more with V and a WHM does with VI, which would be completely overpowered.
    (6)

  4. #4
    Player Economizer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagen View Post
    Because SCH isn't meant to replace WHM in content where a WHM is needed.
    Ha!

    (Okay the second part I don't quote is a good point, but in the majority of situations where procs aren't involved a SCH can replace a White Mage.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Clou777 View Post
    not sure why sch has access to tier V nukes at lv99 yet only up to tier IV cures
    As experienced healers will tell you, in the majority of situations a White Mage never casts Cure V. Cure III and IV are the main things to cast.

    Given that Cure III and IV cure roughly 450 and 850 HP a piece even in only decently geared White Mages, they heal enough to do it all, and they're more MP efficient then Cure V by a fairly wide margin.

    I'm sure you could get a Red Mage to complain to you that they only heal roughly 430 and 810 HP with their Cure III/IVs, and they don't get Afflatus Solace (the more terrible ones will complain about said White Mages being able to use Convert without realizing they're all WHM/SCH).

    But these Red Mages aren't Scholars. They don't get Light Arts Regen buffs, they don't get Regen III let along Regen V, and they don't get Aurorastorm (you know who also doesn't get Regen V, Light Arts Regen buffs and Aurorastorm? White Mages).

    Let's first focus on that light weather buff. Aurorastorm with your obi and your Twilight Cape should give you a 15% multiplicative boost to cures. This means your Cure III and Cure IV will be doing roughly 510 and 950 HP with just your cure potency set and capped Healing Magic skill - stack more Healing Magic skill and you can be curing over 1000 HP with a Cure IV.

    As if that wasn't enough (and note that Cure III and IV with just Afflatus Solace are often enough for White Mages), you also get Regen spells that are actually worth using.

    A White Mage will cast a Regen IV (their highest tier, but not Scholar's) for about 30HP/tic. With gear they can improve this to an extra 10HP/tic and net an extra 5 tics, although most White Mages only carry the AF3 gloves with provide the extra 5 tics. They can also merit it to provide an extra 5HP/tic, although they'd have to sacrifice better merit choices for it (basically, only a dumb White Mage would do this). So at best 45HP/tic Regen IV lasts 75 seconds or 25 tics and wastes valuable merits and a slot of inventory space. And on top of all this, it isn't MP efficient compared to cures!

    A Scholar on the other hand walks in with a Regen V that they can Accession, Perpetuance, get Light Arts buffs on, and even get an even bigger boost under Tabula Rasa. With just a standard cast it cures 69HP/tic while using Light Arts and the correct gear, and lasts 36 tics. Run the strats on it and you're taking a single cast for the whole party and the spell lasts 90 tics (about four and a half minutes). Thus stratagems will make this spell will even wipe the floor with White Mage's single target cures under ideal conditions in terms of MP efficiency, and the tics do cure enough to lighten healing load.

    I'd also like to take this opportunity to remind players that Cure VI sucked before the cure formula changes, sucks more now because they actually nerfed it despite it sucking then, and now Cure V sucks by comparison to Cure III/IV for White Mages.
    (4)

  5. #5
    Player Zagen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economizer View Post
    Ha!

    (Okay the second part I don't quote is a good point, but in the majority of situations where procs aren't involved a SCH can replace a White Mage.)
    It's funny you found my BLM statement to have merit when the only thing BLM has over SCH that is relevant to events a BLM would be brought to is procs.
    (3)

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economizer View Post
    Let's first focus on that light weather buff. Aurorastorm with your obi and your Twilight Cape should give you a 15% multiplicative boost to cures. This means your Cure III and Cure IV will be doing roughly 510 and 950 HP with just your cure potency set and capped Healing Magic skill - stack more Healing Magic skill and you can be curing over 1000 HP with a Cure IV.
    I just want to point out that in the optimum set its actually higher, because you can use Chatoyant instead of Arka which will net you another 10% weather bonus, meaning if you are keeping up weather like a good SCH and you use Obi+Cape+Chat you get a nice 25% bonus on your cures from that, not to mention your 50% from other gear, which puts Cure IV even higher, and above a normal 50% Cure Potency WHM's Cure V I believe.
    (3)

  7. #7
    Player Economizer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demon6324236 View Post
    I just want to point out that in the optimum set its actually higher, because you can use Chatoyant instead of Arka which will net you another 10% weather bonus, meaning if you are keeping up weather like a good SCH and you use Obi+Cape+Chat you get a nice 25% bonus on your cures from that, not to mention your 50% from other gear, which puts Cure IV even higher, and above a normal 50% Cure Potency WHM's Cure V I believe.
    I was actually aiming for a set that was easier to achieve then that, although I should have listed the Chatoyant Staff cure potency numbers for a maximum - admittedly it slipped my mind and I had forgot about the possibility.

    If I am calculating correctly, with a perfect set the 25% weather bonus is better then the 35% cureskin bonus White Mage can get by a small amount.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zagen View Post
    It's funny you found my BLM statement to have merit when the only thing BLM has over SCH that is relevant to events a BLM would be brought to is procs.
    I think there was some sort of overarching and clever point I had thought of involving that when I was typing my original comment, but it is slipping my mind. All I can remember right now is that while I wanted to highlight the gap between White Mage and Scholar to be roughly null, I found your comment somehow insightful.

    I'm sure I'll be able to remember when White Mage can remove Amnesia.
    (0)

  8. #8
    Player Cabalabob's Avatar
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    I find it funny that sch can out cure whm with a lower tier of cure but it can't out nuke blm with the same tier, I think sch should get more sch specific weather bonus gear like the twilight cape, it would stop all the complaining about how everyone gets storm spells cause sch would be able to make theirs stronger, and it would give sch a way to buff it's nukes/cures outside of MaB an cure potency to help it reach the numbers that blm can pull off with nukes.
    (0)

  9. #9
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    SCH can out nuke a BLM/RDM or BLM/SCH with Thunder V but the cast speed is much slower due to BLM having Elemental Celerity. SCH can not out nuke a BLM/SCH because they have access to Hailstorm, and can end up accessing the weather bonus for their spell. SCH can easily out nuke a BLM in pure numbers in any situation I believe, they simply require Ebullience to do it, between the Emp+2 Head and Ebullience you are getting +30% damage, between weather, obi, Twilight Cape, Klimaform, Loafers, possibly Chatoyant, you are getting 25~35% damage.

    The problem with SCH nuking is that eventually you run out of strats and then become much weaker and slower. Till you are out of strats you can use Alacrity to make up for Elemental Celerity and use Ebullience to boost numbers enough to easily out do BLM with pure damage. Just without those 2 SCH falls behind in overall DPS. In all honesty I think SCH is perfectly balanced like that. Its enough to make it a good nuking job, but not enough to completely crush BLM.

    So far as SCH getting more gear for weather bonus, really they should just add Tier II storms that give the effect of double weather, that way its only for SCH and the bonus still exists for SCH. Adding more gear for it simply leads to it being out dated after time. For instance look at the Savant Loafers +2, they used to be the god of feet for SCH with the right weather up because it gives +10% damage to the element of weather you are effected by while you have Klimaform up. However with the Neo-Salvage gear it has been said that Morrigan's +1 Feet are just slightly behind them, only a bit more INT or MAB and the Loafers will be out done. This is one of those unique weather bonus pieces, that will no longer be of use. Thats why its preferable to use a new spell for the bonus instead, you can out date gear with better gear, same with spells, and if you add a new set of spells at 99, the final level cap(for now at very least), then its not going to be outdated till they break that cap and make another tier.
    (2)
    Last edited by Demon6324236; 02-14-2013 at 10:27 PM.

  10. #10
    Player Arcon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cabalabob View Post
    I find it funny that sch can out cure whm with a lower tier of cure but it can't out nuke blm with the same tier [..]
    BLM can out nuke BLM with ease. Not with a single nuke (unless you use Ebullience, in which case BLM can't even get close), but over time.
    (2)
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