Perfect defense / embrava unbalance

[MarkovChain]

Do you remember when you were doing salvage and killed normal NMs, that didn't have insta death moves, when a boss's aoe would do 500 damage and was considered dangerous, when you could kill mobs even of the easiest kind without embrava ? This time has gone and we all regret it. SE has been designing mobs and content around PD and embrava since after abyssea, and it is getting in a very bad way in my opinion.

Here is an example of why embrava broke the game ; ADL is not killable without perfect defense, we have yet to see a reported kill, even with a complete alliance of 18. Why ? because SE designed it to cast tier IV - aga spells instantaneously, it casts all enfeeble with aoe version, has severely damaging TP moves (with added effetc silence, bind, terror, petification, blind) which he spams, has instant death TP moves, can split ad infinitum,etc. So they probably designed it with the idea to use PD, and what did players do ? They used perfect defense.


3 man ADL

Here is a video showing why perfect defense is so unbalanced, as a mob that can't be killed with 18 suddenly becomes a joke with 3.

[revear]

i agree Said spell's are overpowered but SE would of thought them threw before implementing them well i hope.
but with 11 being out for this long what else were they ment to add to keep the casual players playing. game lacks the endgame people grew to love. its people like you that make me laugh get shit done then cry about it hoping it to be nerfed because of your epeen. have fun

[Arcon]

I'm pretty sure SE didn't think them through at all. They probably thought PD would be borderline useless, seeing how it's just an extended version of Invincible and no one uses that at all. They thought those two being a 2hr would restrict their uses to short fights, what they didn't take into account was people scheduling their events entirely around their availability. Given that, and the fact that there's several ways to reset your 2hr even in between 30min events, you can have Embrava up full time for anything that matters, and even PD for most of any event.

The problem is, one that even you will have revear, is that it reflects poorly on content. They see people clearing that shit easily, so they think it's ok to add harder content. However, that approach leaves us with no other option than to employ PD and Embrava strategies yet again, and god forbid you ever try without it. That leaves us with ill-designed events that don't require customized strategies and will always lock slots in for SCH and SMN in the party. If that's the kind of content you like, good for you, but it's not what I wanna play.

I just hope they adjust the current content before (or at the same time as) they nerf those two spells, otherwise FFXI will have a couple of dry months there.

[wish12oz]

SE already said they were nerfing PD and Embrava, whats the point of this thread?

[Demon6324236]

Pointing out how unless they change how certain content works, that once its nerfed it will become nearly, if not completely, impossible. As it was said, ADL with a full alliance is a pain, however with PD its doable with as little as a trio, NNI is currently doable without cheating, but requires Embrava for nearly the entire event from start to finish, once its nerfed, chances it will be won without cheats are nearly non-existent. All in all, the point is that if when they nerf these powers they don't nerf the power of mobs in certain content then said content may become impossible to win at all.

[Monchat]

In my opinion this trend from the developpers started in abyssea not after. Before abyssea you had content where the bosses had devastating moves but there were ways to counter them with a specified strategies (exclude AV and DL). For example everyone remembers Proto-Omega and pile pitch, Proto-Ultima and citadel Buster, salvage chariots and discoid, brainjack, homing missiles, suzaku and chaispell firaga III.. those moves coudl wipe you but they used them at specific points which allowed you to deal with it w/o trouble.


I remember when I came back after a 6 month break, started abyssea @ 90 cap and trying glavoid w/o any atma nor abyssites nor cruor buffs. They made those NMs so that yo u have to use what they give you (atmas and cruor buffs) to kill them. Imagine a mob like dragua w/o double HP for example lol.. would need at least 2 DD tanks and 2 healers per DD, bards for refresh because you cure bomb, he does 1k+ damage every move/spell.

In abyssea it is ok because it is the first instance of God mod enemies, and players were also given god mode. In one way it locked players to specified jobs (war nin whm blu blm thf) but it wasnt that bad since any combo could achieve what they came for, just with different efficiency.

Voidwatch: When they introduced it I had a lot of trouble 6-maning even city T2s (crab and slime). Suddenly I brought SMN and killed the slime (-> invincible KIs) and all vw mobs up to jeuno T2 became jokes. In this content too they give you means to make you invincible to counter mobs's instant death moves, but each VW update they escalated in the design of ADL-type of mobs. A mob that chainspells meteor, another that has a doom aura, mobs like gaunab that will do 2 aga3 and one tp move before you even engage. Come on, seriously. They can wipe an alliance whenever thay want... I don't call this design I call it lazyness.

Nyzul Isle: a lot was said about the need of embrava. Anyone recalls the name of the Bosses and of their TP moves? nope, you just fool's drink/ fana drink/ all JAs up and zerg them in 30s.... can hardly call them bosses, there are normal NMs stronger than them.

Which reminds me: AV. Will absolute virtue be killable by the random PJ player after the nerf? Buy your rings and belts while you can.

[Zirael]

Do you remember when you were doing salvage and killed normal NMs, that didn't have insta death moves, when a boss's aoe would do 500 damage and was considered dangerous, when you could kill mobs even of the easiest kind without embrava ? This time has gone and we all regret it. SE has been designing mobs and content around PD and embrava since after abyssea, and it is getting in a very bad way in my opinion.

Here is an example of why embrava broke the game ; ADL is not killable without perfect defense, we have yet to see a reported kill, even with a complete alliance of 18. Why ? because SE designed it to cast tier IV - aga spells instantaneously, it casts all enfeeble with aoe version, has severely damaging TP moves (with added effetc silence, bind, terror, petification, blind) which he spams, has instant death TP moves, can split ad infinitum,etc. So they probably designed it with the idea to use PD, and what did players do ? They used perfect defense.


3 man ADL

Here is a video showing why perfect defense is so unbalanced, as a mob that can't be killed with 18 suddenly becomes a joke with 3.

The new Producer has already said he was aware of this issue and it would be addressed as a priority along with all jobs' 2h revamp.
Also, I remember (I think, can't really remember the name) Taint reporting in the BLuegartr Dynamis thread that they have killed ADL without PD, but it involved alliance and partial zombiying.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not particularly a fan of insta-death enemies. Even newest Meeble Burrows is plagued with that; insta-cast AoE Death, AoE Doom/weakness TP move (and Hollowed Water spam failing) or AoE ->1HP TP move, etc.

Edit: As a follow-up to Monchat's post, I'm not so worried about Absolute Virtue, since pretty much at this point everything from him is outdated side-grade/junk, but Pandemonium Warden drops Mulcibar's Scoria, and people will need to kill him reliably for Mythic99. Last form with it's multiiple Astral Flows probably still hurts quite a bit.

[Babekeke]

They already said that when they change PD and Embrava, they will be altering certain content that requires it to be accomplished. I'd just wait to see what alterations they do make, if any before complaining about it.

P.S. people have reported ADL kills without using PD. I'm sorry that they didn't send you a personal email to inform you.

Edit: here's the Producer's info:

In regards to the comments we have been seeing from users raising concern that certain content won’t be possible to complete if the effects of Perfect Defense and Embrava are reduced. This is something that even the Development Team is keeping in mind with these adjustments. With that said, we are planning to make necessary adjustments to not only the abilities, but to content as well.

For both existing content and content to come in the future, I believe that conditions where special monsters are created for the sole purpose of counteracting Perfect Defense and Embrava is not desirable at all. The main idea behind the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava is to correct the situation so it will not come to this.

[Monchat]

P.S. people have reported ADL kills without using PD. I'm sorry that they didn't send you a personal email to inform you.

It is certainly possible IMO with 3 SMN using a shock squall rotation, or 2 RDMs chainspell-stunning (note: I have no proof of that, just a guess, like the people who claimed it is possible w/o PD). How is that different from perfect defense in the end, though? It doesn't change the core of the problem: you have to make your self invincible (or make the mob uneable to act) to kill it..

[Zirael]

It is certainly possible IMO with 3 SMN using a shock squall rotation, or 2 RDMs chainspell-stunning (note: I have no proof of that, just a guess, like the people who claimed it is possible w/o PD). How is that different from perfect defense in the end, though? It doesn't change the core of the problem: you have to make your self invincible (or make the mob uneable to act) to kill it..

Trying and succeeding is proof good enough. People ddin't report it: "we think it's possible" but "we did it".