Legion, current playerbase and endgame content

[Arcon]

You don't listen anyways.

Keep in mind you're talking to someone who finished two Afterglow weapons yet insists that the event is not worth doing because it only has minor upgrades and sidegrades.

He's not as retarded as he likes to make people believe, though. He probably knows he's full of shit, he's just too lazy to do it or to get a group together that's capable of clearing that content, so he needs to rationalize his behavior somehow. Either that or it's French logic, I'm not sure.

[MarkovChain]

Would you like to tell me what body beats Khepri in WSing when Impetus is down?

impetus up and victory smite = AF3+2
impetus down = AF3+2 or mantaca harness
shinin spiral = toci+ocelmoeh+1 combo in all cases

You like shinies but you don't seem to know that WSD is first hit only making it less desirable.

Looking at the SS in your Sig, you seem to be wearing

which loses to

in just about every way, except it doesn't have DEX, instead it has accuracy.

both lose to thaumas hat, which loses to nemetona cap.

I really don't feel like going through each piece of gear to explain why they are good... You don't listen anyways. Suffice it to say much of the augmentable gear is great for certain jobs, and some of the drops themselves are good as well.

You should because you are clueless.

[Mahoro]

Most of that gear is kinda pointless as other versions exist already. The pieces that are good are very slight upgrades to what currently exists. It's an effort vs reward kinda of thing. My shell thought long and hard about making legion a regularly scheduled event, got down into tactics and job requirements. Eventually we decided it wasn't worth the hassle / headache and that our members had other events they wanted to do for gear. Most of the legion drops can be bought with gil and we do ADL payouts so members are getting gil they can use for that. The abjuration gear is pretty much non-existent right now, there just aren't enough HQ cursed items floating around to make it a reasonable goal. Maybe if / when SE raise's the crafting cap again we'll see more of them appear, also hopefully they make the materials more common to acquire since unless it's HQ it's just not worth it.

I) I understand the "other events" thing, and I suppose for some groups with limited event time it's a matter of what other remaining goals people have unfulfilled. To me, Legion is where you go to do those final tweaks on jobs once you have most everything else. And I never advocate doing Legion instead of Neo-Nyzul, if it comes down to a choice amongst limited gameplay time.

II) The effort/reward thing I can understand as well, but only to a point:

a) If "time" is the issue, the event is 30 minutes. Assuming a LS has 18 regularly-showing people (which you likely have if you are running events like Prov Watcher), Legion takes as much time or less than those other events. It is a decent complement to ADL runs. Indeed, once a group gets experience, they can just farm lower chambers for trophies and do a Mul run each time they meet, which has 90-95% of the worthwhile drops in Legion. The whole thing takes about 1.5 hours, which is about as much time as your average /shout Prov Watcher group takes for drop rates a fraction of the size. Arguably, 1.5 hours for access to the above list of drops is actually a BETTER effort/reward ratio than the constantly disappointing Prov Watcher, especially when certain stuff like Meteor/Arise has a 100% drop slot. People tend to go home with SOMETHING in my Legion runs, unlike Prov Watcher where they just go home with hatred toward Tanaka.

b) If "hassle/headache" is the issue (i.e., the X-factor) I can understand that much more. Leading one of these runs can be challenging, and there are nights I just don't want to deal with it in my LS. Again, it's all a matter of who you have in your group. Most of the people in both my LS and the side group with which I run are hungry for new events and love the adrenaline rush Legion can give. They don't consider it a hassle or a headache.

III) As for rewards and Pchan's continuing zeal to justify not doing the event, they have been discussed ad nauseum. There are no groundbreaking pieces in Legion, except maybe for SMN. For most people, there are undeniable upgrades (however slight) for people who have everything else. Pchan just listing that "stuff fails" does not, in and of itself, make something fail. He has thankfully conceded the usefulness of Esper Earring, Ngen Seraweels, and Duplus Grip, but he has no conception that someone who plays BLU might get use out of an A'as Circlet, or that a BLM might want a Maniacus Sash, or that a DRK might want Striga Crown, or that certain melee can benefit from Wurrukatte Boots and Huginn Gambieras, or that if everybody took his advice and didn't do the event there would not BE a stream of buyable Legion drops on the AH or in peoples' bazaars (especially Meteor/Arise since Prov Watcher is notoriously stingy). Instead, we get a constant and unending stream of dead-end MNK-skewed ad hominem jabs.

[Demon6324236]

Keep in mind you're talking to someone who finished two Afterglow weapons yet insists that the event is not worth doing because it only has minor upgrades and sidegrades.

He's not as retarded as he likes to make people believe, though. He probably knows he's full of shit, he's just too lazy to do it or to get a group together that's capable of clearing that content, so he needs to rationalize his behavior somehow. Either that or it's French logic, I'm not sure.

Seeing as my view on Afterglow weapons is that to make one you must be both a selfish asshole & an idiot, thats not helping to prove the contrary.

[Monchat]

Would you like to tell me what body beats Khepri in WSing when Impetus is down?

Khepri is exactly 0.3% better than toci's harness in the situation: impetus down, aggressor down, focus down, berserk up. Talk about situational. One job it's good for is mandau thf (thats it?). Droping 150 millions for a item that is 0.3% better thant toci's in the situation that never happens is stupid. Also for 150 million you can get a spharai, which is superior to a verethragna, in which case you do not care since nothing beats toci's for shijin spiral.

[MarkovChain]

Seeing as my view on Afterglow weapons is that to make one you must be both a selfish asshole & an idiot, thats not helping to prove the contrary.

Not sure why you are entitled to judge, but selfish is not the word as both me and mdk have one and we duoed both of them. If you are organised it's not harder than getting a full salvage set back in the day or a relic at 75. The way we did it it also happen to be much faster than a BST soloing dynamis for a relic.

[Demon6324236]

I say selfish because of the massive amount of things you waste. Cinder for instance, I remember having a talk on here with Mdk about how Cinder was hard to find, I wonder how its hard to find, only drops from 2 NMs in VW which are not the most commonly done NMs, and 1 player was taking 3000 of them to themselves for a worthless upgrade... Seems a bit selfish. I feel entitled to judge because I know stupid things when I see them, I watch people on this server shout for days at times, trying to get cinder or dross for upgrades, if someone is hoarding them for Afterglow, they are not only a fool, but selfish for hoarding 3000 items (50 upgrades worth) to themselves for an upgrade that is no where near worth it while people shout all over needing them.

If you duoed ADL for all the marrows, cool, still a waste, going back to what your sig says, you have 2 lv95 H2H you could have 99ed, you could have made a relic for a few new jobs, learned how gear works for those jobs so maybe you don't think that for some reason, every event has terrible gear and isn't worth doing. There are a number of problems I have with afterglow in general that give me that outlook on them, and very little anyone can say or do to change that.



250 x 16Million = 4Billion
4Billion divided by 135Million(Aprox price of a relic) = 29.6
So you could have instead funded nearly 30 relics or you could have made about 18~19 lv99 Relics. These could be made by friends, LS members, anyone you know, instead, you got some glowing hands... Congratulations.

[Afania]

I say selfish because of the massive amount of things you waste. Cinder for instance, I remember having a talk on here with Mdk about how Cinder was hard to find, I wonder how its hard to find, only drops from 2 NMs in VW which are not the most commonly done NMs, and 1 player was taking 3000 of them to themselves for a worthless upgrade... Seems a bit selfish. I feel entitled to judge because I know stupid things when I see them, I watch people on this server shout for days at times, trying to get cinder or dross for upgrades, if someone is hoarding them for Afterglow, they are not only a fool, but selfish for hoarding 3000 items (50 upgrades worth) to themselves for an upgrade that is no where near worth it while people shout all over needing them.

If you duoed ADL for all the marrows, cool, still a waste, going back to what your sig says, you have 2 lv95 H2H you could have 99ed, you could have made a relic for a few new jobs, learned how gear works for those jobs so maybe you don't think that for some reason, every event has terrible gear and isn't worth doing. There are a number of problems I have with afterglow in general that give me that outlook on them, and very little anyone can say or do to change that.



250 x 16Million = 4Billion
4Billion divided by 135Million(Aprox price of a relic) = 29.6
So you could have instead funded nearly 30 relics or you could have made about 18~19 lv99 Relics. These could be made by friends, LS members, anyone you know, instead, you got some glowing hands... Congratulations.

Lol a bit derailing, but I disagree with what you said there.

By your logic, anyone buying currency for his relic club/staff is a waste, anyone buying alex for NIN Mythic or ranged Mythic is a waste too. And anyone buying HMP/Dross/Cinder for polearm/staff/club is also a waste.

And pulling another step further, anyone buying currency for ANY relic except Ragnaork, anyone buying alex for ANY Mythic except GK/Polearm/KKK and anyone buying hMP/cinder/dross for ANY empy except Ukon/Harp/Vere/Masa is also a waste.

BECAUSE THOSE THINGS DOESN'T WORTH IT WHEN ANOTHER RELIC/MYTHIC/EMPY IS MORE OF AN UPGRADE!!!!!! And I'm entitled to judge too, because I have strong sense of justice and must correct all the wrongs in this world

Amirite?

Cinder/dross/hmp/alex/currency is on the market for anyone that can afford it to buy. As long as they farm their gil legit, it's their 10$ a month and they have right to choose what to upgrade they want, even if it's a meanless upgrade.

And no one else has right to point finger for not spending gil on X relic or X empy, unless you farmed gil for them or paid their monthly fee.

Not everyone is interested in playing jobs they don't enjoy, nor farm a relic/empy for jobs they don't enjoy. Some ppl just enjoy playing 1 job and get everything for that 1 job. Your arguement of saying "why don't you just spend on another relic" is totally invalid. You don't have right to point finger to any player that doesn't play/gear new jobs unless you pay for them. Just because you would choose to gear a new job and get relic for it, doesn't mean every player have to do it like you, and not following your way doesn't make them selfish too.

And giving out gil to LS/friend? Lol. How about you give out 1 relic worth of gil to your LS and friend and see how'd you feel w Especially when ppl come and go so fast nowadays, I wonder if giving out relics to friends is even worth it or not when they just get relic and sell account.

Before you point fingers to others, calling others "selfish", how about you show yourself that you're not selfish and willing out to give 30 relics to friends w. Majority of players doesn't give out relic to friends, so by your logic majority of players are selfish too w

But no, not giving out relic to friends isn't selfish, buying cinder for afterglow(or any weaker empy upgrade) isn't too. Anyone have right to keep their hard earned gil on themselves. Or else you're calling majority of players that doesn't work on right weapon and not giving out gil selfish too, and that probably include yourself.


Edit: Personally I don't think Vere afterglow is completely useless if you pt with none aftermath DD btw.

[Demon6324236]

By your logic, anyone buying currency for his relic club/staff is a waste, anyone buying alex for NIN Mythic or ranged Mythic is a waste too. And anyone buying HMP/Dross/Cinder for polearm/staff/club is also a waste.

And pulling another step further, anyone buying currency for ANY relic except Ragnaork, anyone buying alex for ANY Mythic except GK/Polearm/KKK and anyone buying hMP/cinder/dross for ANY empy except Ukon/Harp/Vere/Masa is also a waste.

BECAUSE THOSE THINGS DOESN'T WORTH IT WHEN ANOTHER RELIC/MYTHIC/EMPY IS MORE OF AN UPGRADE!!!!!! And I'm entitled to judge too, because I have strong sense of justice and must correct all the wrongs in this world ;)

Amirite?

You see there is a difference. Afterglow is a cosmetic upgrade with nearly no benefit what to ever, thus, a waste. Your going much to far into what your saying. For instance, my Excalibur does more damage for my RDM, thus, worthy investment. A Mythic NIN does more damage, again, worthy investment. Aftermath MNK gets glowy hands, not a worthy investment. Afterglow WAR gets a giant glowing Axe, again, not worth it. If afterglow improved stats, I might see it as worth it, and not selfish.

Now if the stats were
99:DMG:+52 Delay:+86 Attack+40 Enhances "Counter" effect V "Final Heaven"
99-2:DMG:+62 Delay:+86 Attack+50 Enhances "Counter" effect VI "Final Heaven" Afterglow
Might have something there, an increase in DMG, Attack, and Enhancement. However your comparison is bad imo because your talking about real improvements vs visual improvements.

Cinder/dross/hmp/alex/currency is on the market for anyone that can afford it to buy. As long as they farm their gil legit, it's their 10$ a month and they have right to choose what to upgrade they want, even if it's a meanless upgrade.

And no one else has right to point finger for not spending gil on X relic or X empy, unless you farmed gil for them or paid their monthly fee.

I still see any afterglow as a selfish use of supplies & resources, simple as that. Spend your gil on what you want but that doesn't mean at the end of the day I will think it was any less selfish or justified.

Not everyone is interested in playing jobs they don't enjoy, nor farm a relic/empy for jobs they don't enjoy. Some ppl just enjoy playing 1 job and get everything for that 1 job. Your arguement of saying "why don't you just spend on another relic" is totally invalid. You don't have right to point finger to any player that doesn't play/gear new jobs unless you pay for them. Just because you would choose to gear a new job and get relic for it, doesn't mean every player have to do it like you, and not following your way doesn't make them selfish too.

That comment was mainly thrown in because it seems as though Pchan likes to say every event that comes out has shit for gear, but fails to mention that really, thats because only counting MNKs gear. For instance, NNI rewards, which have some of the best Heavy DD gear in the game including the best WS body ever, or like with Legion.

And giving out gil to LS/friend? Lol. How about you give out 1 relic worth of gil to your LS and friend and see how'd you feel w Especially when ppl come and go so fast nowadays, I wonder if giving out relics to friends is even worth it or not when they just get relic and sell account.

Before you point fingers to others, calling others "selfish", how about you show yourself that you're not selfish and willing out to give 30 relics to friends w. Majority of players doesn't give out relic to friends, so by your logic majority of players are selfish too w

If I had the 250 Marrows to do it? Yeah, I would sell 200 of them and use the gil to buy my best friend his Alexandrites for his Ryuno, buy the Alex for my GF's KKK or Nirvana she wants, finish my Excalibur & Almace to 99, possibly make the RDM Mythic, and after all of that which is about... 2 Billion of the gil, then finish the Bravura, Aegis, Apoc, Rag, and Anni that are being built in my LS as well as 99 them all with the remaining Marrows I didn't sell, along with 99 the 2 relics in my LS currently. That would run down the gil to leave about... 10 Marrows & 300~500Mil gil, which would go to more Relics, Mythics, or Emps that need it later. This would take my LS from its current... 4 Emps 2 Relics, to 4 Emps 7 Relics & 3 Mythics, a massive improvement in group strength. See, the flaw is, I don't have 250 Marrows, so this is all hypothetical, and also I am in a mainly casual/social LS which I run because I like the people in it and have known them for years. Unlike others I don't have easy access to ADL, Neo-Events, or Legion due to that choice, not that its anyone else's fault but my own, but its the reason why I cant exactly do all that like I want to.

But no, not giving out relic to friends isn't selfish, buying cinder for afterglow(or any weaker empy upgrade) isn't too. Anyone have right to keep their hard earned gil on themselves. Or else you're calling majority of players that doesn't work on right weapon and not giving out gil selfish too, and that probably include yourself.

To make Afterglow you have to be one of the richest people on the game, or you have enough shit to sell to be one of the richest people on the game. If you have that much money or potential money and you cant share it with those around you, instead you make a worthless upgrade to your weapon to make it shiny, yes, thats selfish to me.

Edit: Personally I don't think Vere afterglow is completely useless if you pt with none aftermath DD btw.

Depends on the % of the increased crit rate... and even then, not nearly worth 3~4 Billion gil.

[MarkovChain]

Edit: Personally I don't think Vere afterglow is completely useless if you pt with none aftermath DD btw.

My new pimpass afterglow spharai is benefiting from +5% crit from mdk's afterglow (all this because final heaven sux)