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  1. #1
    Player Manakurei's Avatar
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    Oct 2012
    Location
    Sandoria
    Posts
    4
    Character
    Manakurei
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 70

    How to fix SE's spell list problem and RDM at the same time.

    Hello there I have a idea that would fix RDM and add more room to create more spells. By simply allowing all enhancement magic to scale off of the enhancement magic skill, you could efficiently get rid of all the different tiers of enhancement, spells and make RDM more useful at the same time. For example instead of having Protect I-V we would only need 1 tier of Protect, since our enhancement skill increases as we level, so would the strength of the Protect spell, assuming the player takes the time to cap out their magic skill. By having all enhancement scale off the enhancement, magic skill, and getting rid of all the different tiers of enhancement magic, this could potentially make RDM the best buffer in the game even with Regen, and give the devs more room to create new spells.

    Okay now lets talk about En Spell II, with this new formula we will only need 1 tier of en spells. This is my suggestion for our en-spells. Keep our Tier 1 en-spell but increase dmg scaling, but also instead of having en-spells lower the enemies defense against opposing element, have our en-spell's increase our magical accuracy, and magical attack with all spells associated with the element of the en spell. also have this increase scale with Enhancement, and allow the elemental dmg to proc with double attack, and dual wield but not receive other on hit effects. For example if RDM cast En-Blizzard, it will increase the magical accuracy, and magical attack of all their ice elemental spells. Now here comes the fun part changing some of RDM's job traits.

    Replace all RDM magical attack bonus traits with Enhancement bonus. What enhancement bonus should do is increase how much our enhancement spells scale with every enhancement magical skill level.

    Replace all RDM magical defense bonus traits with enhanced fencer job trait. What enhanced fencer job trait should do is increase melee attack, and accuracy when a en spell is active.

    Replace Shield Mastery trait with En-spell mastery. En-spell Mastery should allow our En spells to magic burst, and En-spell mastery II at 97 should increase the dmg of our en spells magic burst, also I would like to note this should not stack with our regular magic burst job trait.

    RDM's don't need new spells we need our spells to scale so our B+ enhancement skill, and A+ enfeeblement skill actually matters.

    Also this is perfectly fair and balanced since we can only buff one person at a time unless we sub SCH.
    (5)
    Last edited by Manakurei; 10-02-2012 at 12:16 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
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    Mar 2011
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    1,401
    I have a better idea. How about remove all the single target Bar spells from the game and just give us AoE Bar spells. That already clears up about 15ish slots. Also remove Gain-CHR.
    (6)

  3. #3
    Player Sunrider's Avatar
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    Jun 2012
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    I respectfully disagree, I'm very fond of my self-target Bar spells, and WHM already makes good use of the AoE versions (though I would like to see a good reason to use Gain-CHR).

    And your plan doesn't exactly pan out. A couple of our spell lines (En-spells, Bar spells, Gain spells, etc), already base their potency off Enhancing skill; potency break points still exist in parallel with higher spell tiers. I suppose its possible to rewrite the formulas to simply tier up the the next spell level when reaching a predetermined skill level, though there are some issues that are raised.

    The first is the function of some spells, specifically En-spells. Tier 1 proc on every hit and simply do damage. Tier 2 proc only on the first hit, and do increasing damage as well as reduce the target's elemental resistance. Some players wouldn't appreciate losing the effect of the tier 1 En-spells just because they skilled up.

    The second is that this would would effectively get rid of higher tiers, and higher tier scrolls by extension. There are players that care a lot whether they get new shiny toys as they level up, and I'm sure there's someone out there that cares whether higher level scrolls disappear from the game.
    (3)

  4. #4
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    Mar 2011
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    I respectfully disagree, I'm very fond of my self-target Bar spells, and WHM already makes good use of the AoE versions
    This is why we can't have nice things.

    Don't you realize that if they replaced our self-target barspells with AoE ones it would open up like 16 slots for cool spells like Sabre/Brave/Faith/Plague/Blink II/Haste II/whathaveyou but it's totally fine if you'd rather have a crappier version of a spell that only WHM gets which only benefits you and nobody else and is basically worthless in a group situation.
    (6)

  5. #5
    Player Sunrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophannus View Post
    This is why we can't have nice things.

    Don't you realize that if they replaced our self-target barspells with AoE ones it would open up like 16 slots for cool spells like Sabre/Brave/Faith/Plague/Blink II/Haste II/whathaveyou but it's totally fine if you'd rather have a crappier version of a spell that only WHM gets which only benefits you and nobody else and is basically worthless in a group situation.
    Your statement assumes RDM is only useful to a party if they're buffing someone else. I tend to think that there are other means of group contribution, such as not dying, or not being a burden on the healer's MP, or being well-equipped to address any surprises.

    RDM's self-oriented capabilities address all of the above, without specifically copying the powers and/or roles of other classes (taking your example, WHM's area Bar spells).

    Whatever S-E's issues with spell limitations, simply removing spells from the game can't be the only fix and, in itself, is a short-sighted one.
    (1)

  6. #6
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    May not be the only fix, but it is surely a simple one.
    (3)

  7. #7
    Player Sunrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demon6324236 View Post
    May not be the only fix, but it is surely a simple one.
    Simple maybe, but inelegant, and still avoids the looming issue of spell list limitations.

    There'll still be the shortage of space and when the time comes when the devs want to introduce new spells (or the players want to see new spells), I'm sure the players will become bored of deleting spells just to make room for new ones. It's an issue they're going to have to address, best to simply tackle it at the mechanical level rather than dancing around it.
    (1)

  8. #8
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    While I agree with you, its just hard to believe right now that they would actually do something complex enough to fix the base problem when they dance around so many other problems in this game. Then again I am currently not particularly happy with SE, as you can see in my thread over in General Discussion so my ideas on it may be skewed.
    (1)

  9. #9
    Player saevel's Avatar
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    Apr 2011
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    2,345
    Character
    Saevel
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Holy ....


    HOW can you desire a single target SELF ONLY spell over an multiple target Area Of Effect spell that does the exact same buff? I like adding 150 Magic Evasion to myself, I would absolutely LOVE to be able to add that to everyone in my party. I like adding 25 of any single stat (usually STR or INT) to myself, I would LOVE to be able to do that to everyone in my party. Protect / Shell is really just an annoyance more then anything else. What SE should of done is revamp the entire line and make Pro / Shell AoE if targeted on yourself and single target if on someone else. Then give WHM Shell / Protect effect merits such that they could add 10~25~40% effectiveness to their own spells. They can already do that with barspell effects.

    See just saved a ton of spell ID's while maintaining class separation and not overpowering any single class.
    (7)
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelix
    Ragnarok's aftermath is only 5% crit rate, even with lv99, so there's almost no point in using Scourge, you just spam Resolution. Even then you become just a boring meathead DD.

    Apoc with both Catastrophe and Entropy gives you crazy sustain of both HP and MP. With the Haste aftermath you can wear a ton of -PDT and solo almost any 75 content.
    Doing damage is for WAR's, DRK is about soloing 75 content yo.....

  10. #10
    Player Manakurei's Avatar
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    Oct 2012
    Location
    Sandoria
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    Character
    Manakurei
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunrider View Post
    I respectfully disagree, I'm very fond of my self-target Bar spells, and WHM already makes good use of the AoE versions (though I would like to see a good reason to use Gain-CHR).

    And your plan doesn't exactly pan out. A couple of our spell lines (En-spells, Bar spells, Gain spells, etc), already base their potency off Enhancing skill; potency break points still exist in parallel with higher spell tiers. I suppose its possible to rewrite the formulas to simply tier up the the next spell level when reaching a predetermined skill level, though there are some issues that are raised.

    The first is the function of some spells, specifically En-spells. Tier 1 proc on every hit and simply do damage. Tier 2 proc only on the first hit, and do increasing damage as well as reduce the target's elemental resistance. Some players wouldn't appreciate losing the effect of the tier 1 En-spells just because they skilled up.

    The second is that this would would effectively get rid of higher tiers, and higher tier scrolls by extension. There are players that care a lot whether they get new shiny toys as they level up, and I'm sure there's someone out there that cares whether higher level scrolls disappear from the game.
    In my post I said get rid of the Tier II en-spells, nowhere did I mention in my post that Tier 1 en spells should turn into our current tier II en spells once they skill up.

    As for everyone else I'm disappointed, here I was excited I finally got replies to my thread and all you are talking about are AOE bar spells...but oh well at least we are discussing potential solutions for SE's spell list problem and RDM's current state, lets hope a dev takes a look in this thread.

    Anyways we need Gain CHR for the same reason we need CHR on our Warlock's tabard, +10 Parry skill on our Warlock's Gloves, and +10 Shield skill on our Warlock boots, we need it simply for the sake of completion. If they want to they could make the strength of our enhancement skills scale with CHR as well as enhancement skill, I don't care as long as they scale with something. I can't be the only one that finds it wrong that a level 48 casting haste is just as efficient as a level 99 casting haste?
    (4)
    Last edited by Manakurei; 10-05-2012 at 12:35 AM.

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