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  1. #11
    Player Rubicant82's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Windhurst
    Posts
    290
    Character
    Rubican
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    BLM Lv 99
    Cure V will never happen, SE has already stated that no other job out side of whm (other than a pup's puppet) will ever have more than cure IV, which is why the "buffed" the curing spells in general.

    Helix II would be nice to have, though with the way content is now I don't see how useful they would be when mobs (even NMs) die in relatively short times.

    Weather II most definitely esp if they bolster the stormsurge merits giving them a higher stat-boost than the -Boost spells.
    (2)

  2. #12
    Player Saefinn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San d'Oria - Asura
    Posts
    259
    Character
    Saefinn
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    COR Lv 99
    I guess that's a fair argument. Essentially you want them to bring SCH's cure spells up to scratch, but of course, do it without it stepping on WHM's toes. I wouldn't want to encourage the idea that SCH should be a replacement WHM, I would like to see SCH's healing ability improved, yet at the same time, make better use of its own unique abilities. I suppose the introduction of Cure V (with different rules) would mean less spamming & and that could mean you're sneakily casting a helix or a weather spell. Kind of like how I used to play when levelling and that worked quite nicely in my opinion.

    However, I'm not sure exactly how SE would change the rules to benefit everybody in that way. As a 95, I've not tried out Regen V yet, so that might actually be the answer to improving healing I have been looking for.
    (0)
    Saefinn on Asura
    Main Jobs: Corsair: i117, Scholar: i117, Monk: i117, Summoner: i117

  3. #13
    Player Rambus's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    1,561
    Character
    Rambus
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    yeah they need to change V and VI to fit that really. I could even say make healing magic skill matter more for IV was another idea.

    The only reason that can be a fix is because /sch does not get cure IV so main's base cure IV can be higher then sub (i would say base cure more for like 100 more hp then off sub)
    (0)

  4. #14
    Player Merton9999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    528
    Character
    Mordru
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    SCH Lv 99
    I don't necessarily care for Cure V anymore after Regen V and the healing skill changes. But I do agree that there needs to be more distinction between mage main jobs and sub jobs, particularly in the realm of abilities added 76-99.

    That goes for all mage jobs really. Adloquium, storms, Animus, Libra, Cure VI, Comet, Gravity II etc. all need much more potency, utility or efficiency to make them job defining, fun and worthwhile. For me, every one was a case of getting excited when I read the job update notes, then sighing later as I had no real reason to use them. Meanwhile, the abilities that opened up from 38-49 sub made a huge impact - Convert/Refresh/Accession/Haste, etc. That was backwards and disappointing to me.

    I know people make the claim that underpowered 76-99 abilities were intentional so SE could balance with merits and other adjustments later. I say find something new and interesting to keep me playing later, but still offer new spells that have some teeth with their introduction, not four years later. Ugh.
    (1)

  5. #15
    Player Rambus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    1,561
    Character
    Rambus
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Merton9999 View Post
    I know people make the claim that underpowered 76-99 abilities were intentional so SE could balance with merits and other adjustments later. I say find something new and interesting to keep me playing later, but still offer new spells that have some teeth with their introduction, not four years later. Ugh.
    looks at GS ws...
    *looks again*

    Riiiigggghhhhtttt.....
    I was going to refute this by pointing to what melees got but that would be off topic.

    But yes the progress is backwards... it is like SE turned FFXI into FFXIV when that game was new ( you know where both mage jobs could equip the other mage jobs spells so there was no real difference between them)
    (0)

  6. #16
    Player Plasticleg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    202
    Character
    Zerichtwo
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Rambus View Post
    But yes the progress is backwards... it is like SE turned FFXI into FFXIV when that game was new ( you know where both mage jobs could equip the other mage jobs spells so there was no real difference between them)
    So what was SCH's utility at 75 cap, beyond MP conservation and phalanxga? Modus Veritas burn isn't allowed because that was patched like hell. Am I missing some secret?
    (2)

  7. #17
    Player Daniel_Hatcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San d'Oria
    Posts
    2,577
    Character
    Alvian
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 12
    Quote Originally Posted by Plasticleg View Post
    So what was SCH's utility at 75 cap, beyond MP conservation and phalanxga? Modus Veritas burn isn't allowed because that was patched like hell. Am I missing some secret?
    Was more useful than BLM... but that was it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambus View Post
    I am just wondering why jobs on /SCH can have the same spells as SCH main expect for thunder weather. I looked at the other thread about the comment on stormsuge merits and I can understand the complaint over that as well because of this issue I am posting about.

    Now, If jobs can sub whm or RDM for cure IV why is our job as a main stuck on that same spell? I was expecting more of a level 99 game after I quit not a fake 99 game based on level 75 rules still.

    This also goes in why not give weather II and helix II? You know spells for the job as a MAIN that can't be obtained as a sub. (You let sub all our helix spells so where is helix II? why were these spells changed to be subable anyway?)

    Then I do not get why a 99 SCH requires addendum: black to cast stone IV-thunder IV when rdm can freecast them (back when it was 75 SCH freecast stone III- thunder III same as rdm)

    Stone IV - thunder IV under Addendum: black at 75 is fine, at 99 it is stupid.

    Please break all the level 75 rule mentally, thank you.
    Because RDM actually learned how to use them, SCH only reads them temporarily from a book, it's kind of been how they are since introduction.

    Cure IV is balanced enough it's near useless subjob now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambus View Post
    And who cares about if you get the spells easier.

    there is 3 stages in the game
    The time you spend leveling 1 to 30
    The time you spend leeching 31-99
    Endamge.


    So that update for that reason is pointless. What I care about is that the spells that was suppose to define the job is available on sub now.

    so fix it by giving us II versions, heck there is even a gravity II spell now.
    You did not just use SE's troll spell to RDM as a reasoning for a stronger, useful spell.
    (2)
    Last edited by Daniel_Hatcher; 09-28-2012 at 02:13 AM.

  8. 09-28-2012 02:05 AM

  9. #18
    Player Calatilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    271
    Character
    Calatilla
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    DRK Lv 99
    SCH is already the 2nd best healer in the game, how could they improve on that without pushing WHM aside?
    The new cure formula plays right into SCH`s hands with weather boosts whenever they please. They don't have cure V because, frankly, they don't even need it.

    With Regen-ga V on your DD`s you find yourself less inclined to cure them unless they take a big hit to the face anyway, so most of the time a cure III is enough.

    Also, in regards to why RDM can freecast tier 4 spells and SCH can only use them under Arts. Look at your elemental skill with no Arts up, then look at RDM`s. RDM has the skill for T4 at 99, SCH doesn't unless using Dark Arts.
    (3)
    Last edited by Calatilla; 10-02-2012 at 07:25 AM.

  10. #19
    Player Rambus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    1,561
    Character
    Rambus
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Calatilla View Post
    SCH is already the 2nd best healer in the game, how could they improve on that without pushing WHM aside?
    The new cure formula plays right into SCH`s hands with weather boosts whenever they please. They don't have cure V because, frankly, they don't even need it.

    With Regen-ga V on your DD`s you find yourself less inclined to cure them unless they take a big hit to the face anyway, so most of the time a cure III is enough.

    Also, in regards to why RDM can freecast tier 4 spells and SCH can only use them under Arts. Look at your elemental skill with no Arts up, then look at RDM`s. RDM has the skill for T4 at 99, SCH doesn't unless using Dark Arts.
    and at 75 we freecasted the same spells so that makes no sense unless it was forgetting to upgrade that. The level cap rasing was rushed and a lit of the game still feels like it is based off 75 rules so..

    Addendum: Black gave IV spells while Addendum: white gave na spells, I think SE did this so it would resist playing a whm and blm at once. It has nothing to do with skill values as you said. We got to access the highest level of nukes or nas but not both at once, unless you want to be a sch/whm without a mab trait..

    moving on.

    At 75 it was for the next line of spells, not next two lines like it is at 99. makes no sense that we need Addendum: Black for IV spells at 99

    Also the killer note to your theory is look at dark knight who has a higher skill then rdm does. at 75 they get T-II spells and sch and rdm freecasted III spells despite the lower skill. so make it the same as 99 where we should freecast IV spells, a tier higher then drk's now III spells

    If there is a new formula for cure then I am not aware and I never found regen spells that useful if you are getting hit for almost all your hp so you need cure V.
    ^
    Keep in mind i am speaking more how the game was at 75 and when tanks typically took lot of damage. I see people use them AoEing them and in the end it does not seem useful, if you are going to take 900 damage your still gonna cast cure V

    And I did address it without pushing whm aside, i really think the rules on the spell lines need to be changed to fit the game more I/E more to cure VI then anything like lowering mp cost. If cure V was handed to the jobs just to say they got a real upgrade and not casting a spell anyone can un sub then cure V's rules need to be changed.

    Looking up clear mind recently because of the retarded shouts im seeing, I also do not get why we have clear mind V with SMN unless wiki is out of date. In the past SMN always had the highest clear mind and now everyone has V. Does SE think it would be over powered give higher clear mind traits? I mean 1-75 always have upgrades so why is 76-99 so much different? I still think that idea was rushed and not well thought out in breaking all the rules the game had at 75. The list I gave was trying to address some of that.
    (1)
    Last edited by Rambus; 10-02-2012 at 03:13 PM.

  11. #20
    Player Muras's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    96
    Character
    Muras
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    RUN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Rambus View Post
    and at 75 we freecasted the same spells so that makes no sense unless it was forgetting to upgrade that. The level cap rasing was rushed and a lit of the game still feels like it is based off 75 rules so..

    Addendum: Black gave IV spells while Addendum: white gave na spells, I think SE did this so it would resist playing a whm and blm at once. It has nothing to do with skill values as you said. We got to access the highest level of nukes or nas but not both at once, unless you want to be a sch/whm without a mab trait..

    moving on.

    At 75 it was for the next line of spells, not next two lines like it is at 99. makes no sense that we need Addendum: Black for IV spells at 99

    Also the killer note to your theory is look at dark knight who has a higher skill then rdm does. at 75 they get T-II spells and sch and rdm freecasted III spells despite the lower skill. so make it the same as 99 where we should freecast IV spells, a tier higher then drk's now III spells
    I personally think it's fine that tier 4 spells still require addendum black. Not only does it fall in line with what SCH is based on, which is drawing knowledge and strength from Grimoires, but it also encourages specific play styles because constantly swapping between Addendum White and Black becomes a strain on strategems. It's somewhat like BLU's spell reset timer but not nearly as annoying. People often forget that jobs are supposed to have negative sides to them. Having some spells locked is one of them when it comes to SCH. When all is said and done, a SCH could likely still outnuke a RDM using just helix spells and tier 3 nukes, anyways.

    If there is a new formula for cure then I am not aware and I never found regen spells that useful if you are getting hit for almost all your hp so you need cure V.
    ^
    Keep in mind i am speaking more how the game was at 75 and when tanks typically took lot of damage. I see people use them AoEing them and in the end it does not seem useful, if you are going to take 900 damage your still gonna cast cure V
    Well... You're aware now, because they revamped cures to the point where they do approximately 40% more with capped healing magic.

    My Cure IV heals 910+ outside Abyssea and I only have something like +42% Cure Potency (Cure III does 478ish). With Rapture my Cure IV does 1470ish. If someone is gonna take 900 damage I'm gonna cast Cure IV. If they take more than that I Rapture it. And if a whole group needs healing then you Accession it. SCH doesn't need Cure V. The only benefit would be the low enmity it produces.

    Regens are useful too. With the Empyrean +2 hat, a SCH's Regen1 is as potent as a bare WHM's Regen IV (Light Arts of course). Regen V itself is 69 HP/tick, and when used with Perpetuance, lasts 4.5 mins for a total of 6210 potential HP recovered. That Regen'd HP adds up, and it's foolish not to cast them. In fact, I'd say it's about as foolish as a WHM not using Afflatus Solace.

    Also, it doesn't matter if other jobs can sub Cure IV because other jobs can't do what SCH can with a Cure IV, or even come close to it (Divine Seal is kinda on a 10 minute timer so I don't really count that...).

    Looking up clear mind recently because of the retarded shouts im seeing, I also do not get why we have clear mind V with SMN unless wiki is out of date. In the past SMN always had the highest clear mind and now everyone has V. Does SE think it would be over powered give higher clear mind traits? I mean 1-75 always have upgrades so why is 76-99 so much different? I still think that idea was rushed and not well thought out in breaking all the rules the game had at 75. The list I gave was trying to address some of that.
    Since this was easy to test, I jumped onto the Test Server to level my SMN to 99 instantly and rested on both SCH and SMN. When the first MP recovery happened I gained 30 MP on both SCH and SMN (Both naked of course). So I assume there's a Clear Mind VI in there somewhere, and obviously all mages have it.

    For the record, at Lv75 both BLM and SMN have Clear Mind V, so it wasn't just a SMN thing.
    (2)

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