To Dev's, are there any plans to fix Neo Nyzul Isle?

[Caketime]

Yes, because when two identical groups go in and one wins a run or two and the other is wiping on floor 13, takes 4 minutes to find a register lamp, and clears kill all floors slower than the other then it clearly is not skill based at all! Playing this game at all shows a willingness to run on hamster wheel. Your analogy is dumb.

Oh wow, it's possible for two groups to perform completely differently, that's not shocking news at all. It also doesn't change the fact that this event sucks. Talk about skill and gear all you want all day long, NNI is still going to suck. You even admitted in your post that it's not skill based, yet you try and defend it by saying that it takes skill, but I'd be willing to wager that your hypothesis is completely false and the only reason anybody wins is due to the RNG not turning any given run into a hot mess. The sole contributing factor to victory in NNI is damage output, and it doesn't take much brain power to press a few buttons or set up a WS macro.

Skill is threading the needle with a pet that paths like an overweight autistic child with bowlegs, running through empty rooms and beating down lone mobs while occasionally pressing a button in sequence with other people is not. This event is still terrible, by the way.

[Sp1cyryan]

Oh wow, it's possible for two groups to perform completely differently, that's not shocking news at all. It also doesn't change the fact that this event sucks. Talk about skill and gear all you want all day long, NNI is still going to suck. You even admitted in your post that it's not skill based, yet you try and defend it by saying that it takes skill

Stop looking at it in a black and white manner please. How are you unable to understand that skill and luck factor in? Some people hate the ways certain things work while others enjoy it very much. We don't change events because it was not tailored to a specific groups liking.

but I'd be willing to wager that your hypothesis is completely false and the only reason anybody wins is due to the RNG not turning any given run into a hot mess.

Three order lamps last night in a run last night with an uncomfortable number of low jumps thrown in and we won with a couple of minutes to spare. The run before that literally had four two floor jumps in a row ( not to mention) and we only ended up finishing 92 with thirty seconds left because it was a huge same time lamp floor. If we managed to pound through a couple seconds faster on every floor then that could have easily been a win.

The sole contributing factor to victory in NNI is damage output, and it doesn't take much brain power to press a few buttons or set up a WS macro.

Damage output is a factor that is involved in winning all events. By your logic this game does not take much brain power at all. Therefore I would wonder what really needs to actually be changed?
Is it a problem that people would rather try to burn through an event like legion that requires some skill instead of actually trying to make it more challenging by leaving the embrava stunners home?

Skill is threading the needle with a pet that paths like an overweight autistic child with bowlegs, running through empty rooms and beating down lone mobs while occasionally pressing a button in sequence with other people is not. This event is still terrible, by the way.

Again with the idiotic analogies huh? I do not even know what you are honestly even saying going on about overweight children with bowlegs.

Nothing makes this event terrible other than the fact that you do not like it. You and your analogies can do all the other events in this game then.

[Caketime]

Ooh, anecdotal evidence supporting Luck > Skill! Herp derp.

Also no, this game doesn't require much brain power to play successfully. If anything it requires patience and a stubborn refusal to be disheartened by the hateful RNG, but that's a discussion for some other thread.

[Sp1cyryan]

Ooh, anecdotal evidence supporting Luck > Skill! Herp derp.

Yes because your analogies have been something to be very proud of. Hurr-durr.

Your acquired knowledge of the game, tools (gear) at your disposal, and prowess with the controls determines your overall skill. Quit acting like this event has nothing to do with skill because some all mighty RNG determines everything. You will get more jumps going in with well geared people who can coordinate and move quickly as a team than you will with the people who do not.

Here let me make the debate simple so we can potentially skate around a rebuttal involving an analogy.

*More jumps within 30 minutes means a greater chance of winning despite bad luck from the RNG.

*Skilled groups jump more often than less skilled groups (typically the people who complain Nyzul is "too hard").

It is as simple as that. You can not win all the runs, and obviously will have some bad luck. However, there is no good reason you can not win one out of three runs on average or better every few nights your group goes.

If anything it requires patience and a stubborn refusal to be disheartened by the hateful RNG, but that's a discussion for some other thread.

Do we really need to question who is being stubborn? I think you may possibly be surprised by the answer.

[wish12oz]

Random thoughts I want to reply to since I last looked at this thread like 3 days ago:

Playing a melee job is not all that hard. You engage things, you use abilities once in awhile, and you WS when you have 100 TP. Simple as that.

The skill part of these jobs comes in knowing what gear to get and use for what enemies, WSing right before or right when you get 100 TP, knowing when it is most effective to use your abilities, learning how to acquire the gear you need, actually acquiring it, etc. For Nyzul specifically, macroing on/off run fast shoes to do your best to remove engage/disengage position lock is a pretty skill based thing to do, knowing when the flan NM suddenly gets healed when you hit it with your stick so you don't suddenly fill it back up to 100%, having good memory so you know which ways you have run already, which ways other players have run already, where other players are when they say things like "I found it," and knowing to not follow the other person when there are two ways you could go.

SAM is good in Neo Nyzul? Since when?
WAR MNK and BLU are the best melees for Neo Nyzul, and I will explain why.

WAR because it has a huge single target WS (Ukkos Fury), a big damage AOE WS (Fell Cleave) and Tomahawk for annoying mobs that take reduced damage, like some of the flan NMs, slimes, skeletons, etc, that you constantly fight all the time. It also has cheap/easy to acquire run fast shoes (Hermes Sandels) from the AH.

BLU for the same reasons as WAR, big damage single target WS/spells, AOE spells, decently easy to acquire run speed (Crimson pants, but these are harder than Hermes) plus it gets stuns, and can do magic damage to stuff to avoid slashing damage penalties or take advantage of stuff that takes extra magic damage or no physical damage.

MNK is worse off than the previous two, but it can use Formless Strikes to fight the flan NM when it goes into "physical damage heals me mode," or to beat on things like slimes. It also has Hermes Sandels. And its not like the stuff in Neo Nyzul is hard at all, so it doesn't take much of a hit from being a 1 handed weapon job.

SAM DRK DRG do not have this one advantage MNK has over them, so they are all inferior compared to it. And 1 handed melees are generally just bad compared to 2 handed in any event where you basically sit at capped haste all the time, since their Dual Wild suffers tremendously, their WS's are all inferior damage comparatively and their overall DoT is just much lower, and thats the only thing the remaining jobs have going for them.

[Caketime]

Yes because your analogies have been something to be very proud of. Hurr-durr.

Your acquired knowledge of the game, tools (gear) at your disposal, and prowess with the controls determines your overall skill. Quit acting like this event has nothing to do with skill because some all mighty RNG determines everything. You will get more jumps going in with well geared people who can coordinate and move quickly as a team than you will with the people who do not.

You've used the term skill 7 times across the last 3 posts in reference to pressing buttons and running forward. Just wanted to put that into perspective. I'm also going to assume that by repeating the term skilled you actually mean geared, it's not like you're crocheting blankets for orphans or anything you're just pressing buttons.

Do we really need to question who is being stubborn? I think you may possibly be surprised by the answer.

The answer is both. You stand by your argument that you're some kind of FFXI commando pro, and I stand by mine that the only reason anyone wins is the RNG allows it. We're not going to convince one another of anything.

[Sp1cyryan]

You've used the term skill 7 times across the last 3 posts in reference to pressing buttons and running forward. Just wanted to put that into perspective. I'm also going to assume that by repeating the term skilled you actually mean geared, it's not like you're crocheting blankets for orphans or anything you're just pressing buttons.

I consider skilled being more than geared. In the last post I even mentioned knowledge, gear, and prowess with the controls being the main components of skill. When it comes to Nyzul coordination is a fourth aspect added on.

After reading that you should not continue to replace "skill" with "pressing buttons and running forward".

Instead of writing yet another pseudo-intellectual analogy you could have addressed the two bulleted sentences in the previous post. So the answer is not "both" of us are actually being stubborn. I am making points and you pretty much shake your head at anything that does not end up leading to "nope RNG guiz".

You stand by your argument that you're some kind of FFXI commando pro, and I stand by mine that the only reason anyone wins is the RNG allows it. We're not going to convince one another of anything.

I am not some sort of commando pro and happen to be easily replaceable in my group.

The RNG 'allowing' a win is not the real reason they won. They won because they tried instead of worrying about chance over and over. Out of curiosity how many pieces of Nyzul gear has that RNG permitted you to obtain?

WAR MNK and BLU are the best melees for Neo Nyzul, and I will explain why.

BLU for the same reasons as WAR, big damage single target WS/spells, AOE spells, decently easy to acquire run speed (Crimson pants, but these are harder than Hermes) plus it gets stuns, and can do magic damage to stuff to avoid slashing damage penalties or take advantage of stuff that takes extra magic damage or no physical damage.

I would not consider BLU to be one of the best melees for Nyzul. However, they are very acceptable to bring and have their moments of utility that shine above what others can preform every now and then.

If the BLU does not have 5/5 requiscate then they are not even worth bringing off the bat. Requiscate on kill all floors repeatedly shines on the NM slimes you run into as well as the normal slimes and puddings. It also shines on the troll NM and the PDT custard leader. Especially with enfire being doled out as the BLU will be walking around with significant double and tripple attack.
Sudden lunge saves runs and time by preventing the chariot leader from spamming charm, the imp NM from amnesia, the rats from their amnesia, EES, and terror, etc. AoEing rooms of mobs down on kill all floors is great too.

That being said if you have a BLU IMO there is no reason for a MNK. Formless strikes becomes useless (especially from not being ready all the time). Rag DRK, Ukon WAR, Masamune SAM, etc just fill the slot better once the BLU has filled in.

[MarkovChain]

The reason it gets defended by a small portion of people is because theyve found it to be winnable, losing to random bad luck is something you have to overlook. Wanting SE to change the bad luck/obstacle element of NNI is about the same as asking for the gear to be handed to you a silver platter..

No, you can change the event so as to make it less of "0 or 1". It's easy to keep the luck part predominant while still giving away bones for when your group doesn't have SCH or when you had a lamp order or when you don't play under cheatmode. There are plenty of solutions but the best one is the following :

* allow each boss to drop a shard from the KI needed to get F100 drop.
* each boss (20/40/60/80/100) are now equal and will drop a cell.
* killing 20/60/80 boss is now necessary to progress further.
* Last boss dops a random armor but not 100% of the time (make it 10%).
* you require 100 shards to exchange an armor at the NPC.

explanations :
-each boss helps you progress so even with far from optimal setups you can progress.
-If you are good OR lucky you will get more shards than other.
-If you are very lucky you may end up getting to floors 100, thus benefitting from a 4rth shard plus a chance at the treasure pool.
-It requires minimal effort to change the current system.
- Forcing people to do inbetween floors helps transforming NNI into a more progressive event.

Anyway, in the census, NNI thread ranked like 3rd in the number of likes so the devs must fix it assap. My suggestion still allows embrava user to perform better but it would be not as much important because 90% of the time even with no embrava you are going to reach F60.

[Sp1cyryan]

No, you can change the event so as to make it less of "0 or 1". It's easy to keep the luck part predominant while still giving away bones for when your group doesn't have SCH or when you had a lamp order or when you don't play under cheatmode. There are plenty of solutions but the best one is the following :

* allow each boss to drop a shard from the KI needed to get F100 drop.
* each boss (20/40/60/80/100) are now equal and will drop a cell.
* killing 20/60/80 boss is now necessary to progress further.
* Last boss dops a random armor but not 100% of the time (make it 10%).
* you require 100 shards to exchange an armor at the NPC.

That easily makes the event worse than it is. Who needs 100 shards when if all is lost you can win floor 80 easily. If my objective was 80 I think my win rate would shoot to 90+%.

Taking away the boss dropping armor 100% on floor 100 also pointlessly makes the event worse.

Forcing floor 20/40/60 bosses is a silly pointless change. The event in SEs mind has rewards that were not put there for progressive system to easily change. Considering any group that has more than one oar in the water should be able to get to floor 60 in a single run why should they allow it to become progressive so you can springboard from that?

-If you are very lucky you may end up getting to floors 100, thus benefitting from a 4rth shard plus a chance at the treasure pool.

Or if you are "very lucky" you could just win and get 1-3 pieces of gear with a KI for another instead of being 8% done towards a single piece. Where does the latter seem better? Floor 100 is not that hard to get to at all.

Anyway, in the census, NNI thread ranked like 3rd in the number of likes so the devs must fix it assap.

Lol, there could be a thread with a record number of likes that stated heavy metal plates should be lowered from needing 1500 to 1000 and it does not mean the Devs have to do anything.

My suggestion still allows embrava user to perform better but it would be not as much important because 90% of the time even with no embrava you are going to reach F60.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time, it works every time.

[Caketime]

I consider skilled being more than geared. In the last post I even mentioned knowledge, gear, and prowess with the controls being the main components of skill. When it comes to Nyzul coordination is a fourth aspect added on.

You see that bearded gentlemen with the look of disappointment on his face in the bottom right panel of your sig? That's the face I'm making right now, all of the things you pointed out are game basics, and for all your over-explanation it still boils down to pressing buttons and running forward. The details for the most part hardly matter outside of gear choice, being that our characters have a linear stat progression and there are literally zero differences between one character and another of the same job aside from racial bonuses and gear. Merits might have achieved some semblance of customizaion if there weren't blatant garbage merit choices among the good ones, so even in that aspect players of the same job are extremely likely to have the same abilities merited, or be told to sit in the corner with RDM and BST.

After reading that you should not continue to replace "skill" with "pressing buttons and running forward".

No.

Instead of writing yet another pseudo-intellectual analogy you could have addressed the two bulleted sentences in the previous post. So the answer is not "both" of us are actually being stubborn. I am making points and you pretty much shake your head at anything that does not end up leading to "nope RNG guiz".

You are unable to convince me that your awesome cookie cutter strategies and ability to communicate with 5 other people via voice chat programs makes you more capable of winning an event where luck plays a huge factor in every aspect. Conversely, I am unable to convince you that this event sucks and is a RNG slot machine disguised as "fun". It's OK to be stubborn, it just shows that you're passionate about this particular aspect of the game and nothing I say is going to change your mind. Have fun in there

I am not some sort of commando pro and happen to be easily replaceable in my group.

The RNG 'allowing' a win is not the real reason they won. They won because they tried instead of worrying about chance over and over. Out of curiosity how many pieces of Nyzul gear has that RNG permitted you to obtain?

0. I play BST and am not ideal for timed events requiring spike damage, so I'm defaulted to the corner to play craps with RDM and discuss our plans for world domination. My problem with this event is that typing everything out eats up time and every second counts, if the devs added a voice option compatible between xbawks and PC it would be that much easier to keep everyone on the same page in situations where lamps need to be fondled in a specific order and what have you.