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  1. #11
    Player Caketime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Taco Bell
    Posts
    654
    Character
    Anonymous
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    I've participated in some VW with my shell, we finished the 3 cities up to T4 and completed the bosses of each for KI. I found myself getting pretty bored, and I was on WHM those nights. Usually keeping people alive and rotating buffs is enough to keep me interested, but I noticed that on each fight they did the exact same strategy and just spammed temps. It worked, but those items really make fights super boring, and the instant death moves making them required don't help.

    I found myself drinking more beer than anything else, so I guess VW is pretty awesome if you want to get drunk.

    P.S.: Our SAM got a Tefnut wand and wouldn't sell it to me, electing instead to seek maximum profit via the auction house. He is a butthole.
    (10)
    Last edited by Caketime; 09-19-2012 at 01:31 AM.

  2. #12
    Player Sephiran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    106
    Character
    Sephiran
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcon View Post
    Now I feel bad about my blunt response, so allow me to elaborate, although others have already done so (with limited benevolence). The reported drop rate of certain items is well below 1%, even with all lights capped. Let's take Coruscanti for example. A disturbing number of people have been trying for well over 300 runs for it. Even with a 1% probability it's very unlikely (~5%) that it would take someone that long. With a 10% probability it would be a 0.000000000002% chance that someone would take 300 tries (i.e. statistically impossible with the current playerbase). And I know someone personally who is close to quadruple digits on it, and still no sign of it.

    The Voidwatch system was good and bad at the same time. It introduced some good things (personal chests) and some very bad things (inherently low drop rates and limited accessibility because you can't transfer drops even if you wanted to).



    Technically, he said "to 10%" not "by 10%", so that's not right.
    Don't feel bad at all about it. At the time, I had not looked at Coruscanti. I concede.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caketime View Post
    P.S.: Our SAM got a Tefnut wand and wouldn't sell it to me, electing instead to seek maximum profit via the auction house. He is a butthole.
    While I have withdrawn my argument, I cannot help the fact that your SAM was a jerk. Like I said, I attribute difficulty to aspects that are strictly "hard". I don't count stuff for being time consuming nor do I consider the factor that dirtbags abound.

    That being said, I withdrew the argument because now I realize that VW is not "fair". Some of the drop rates are flat-out unreasonable and give no semblance of progress. To expound, I will give the following example:

    Say you have to get one helm of Briareus for an Almace or Kannagi instead of 50, but the drop rate was around 1%. That's harder in my book because there is no progress. You could kill Briareus 100 times with no helm and your work accounts to nothing because the trial is based on a binary complete/not-complete basis rather than the work-in-progress basis that we have, which at least guarantees that you'd have enough helms for both weapons assuming you lotted everything. In one system, what you accomplish progresses towards a weapon's completion. In another, each instance where the helm drops does not bring you closer to your goal at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon6324236 View Post
    Either you are the luckiest man I have ever seen who does VW, or you have not had much experience with VW. I assure you I have capped lights every kill I do of nearly every NM I have fought, and yet I have gotten 1 rare body, Heka's, thats the only one out of over 600 VW fights total. If you add semi-rare items such as Ganesha's, Phasmida, and that kinda thing, then I probably have 10~12 out of 600 VW fights. If it went to a 10% drop rate with capped lights, I think VW would be just great honestly!

    Please note I am not trying to sound rude or anything, but that makes it seem like your highly unexperienced with VW at this time.
    I guess you're right.
    (2)
    Last edited by Sephiran; 09-19-2012 at 01:08 PM.

  3. #13
    Player Nawesemo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    352
    Character
    Nawesemo
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    BLM Lv 99
    Why!? Because they're ninny sissies who know nothing of 0/1987 k club runs, thats why!!!! It will be his, o yes, it will.
    (4)
    In our wake will be smoke fire and burnt charred remains of those that have fell before us, We will not remember their names, as they are no more, the next challenge, the next horizon is what we strive for and Demand it be met with Ferocity, We Grin at the Possibility of death, Fear no Mob that walks Vana'diel or it's Realms, there is no tomorrow, there is only now, For pride, for honor, for Glory We are The Knights of Pegasus.

  4. #14
    Player Afania's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,445
    Character
    Afania
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 1
    Quote Originally Posted by Sephiran View Post
    I'm asking this question being in denial. I've always heard people say Voidwatch was bad content, and I would simply like to ask why. In Voidwatch's defense, let me make the following points:
    Lol you're trolling right? Right??







    But fine I'll bite.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sephiran View Post
    1.) The event has the potential to be challenging without being ridiculous. You can adjust so many variables that affect its course, including difficulty via phase displacers.

    2.) It's the old HNM's, but without the camping, the waiting around, the tension, and the frustration of dealing with botters. You can spawn the same NM within seconds after you kill it.

    3.) The spoil system is rewarding. Unlike HNM's, VwNM's can drop more than one of an item or piece of equipment, and drops are distributive unto each participant rather than pooled among all.

    In other words, it's almost a promise of items rather than just freak chance tipped your way by Treasure Hunter. And as if that's not enough, you can affect your chance of getting a rare item by trading rubicund cells and staggering the enemy, which helps everyone in the alliance get their stuff, hence encouraging people to help each other out.
    Troll detected!

    How does that 0.1% of chance to get T3 body and 0.01% chance of getting Qilin dagger be "rewarding" in any way. You can kill 700 T3 or Qilin, with red capped every fight, and still can't get what you want.

    How is that "rewarding" in anyway?

    Of course you can tell me that old HNM system is even less rewarding when you have to wait for years for items like D-ring. But we're not comparing VW with old pre-Abby FFXI here. Compare with post Abyssea FFXI event, VW is less rewarding than Abby/Neo Nyzul/legion and neo dyna, at least I got gear much faster in legion/Neo nyzul/neo dyna/abby etc.

    If 0.1% of 0.01% of chance of drop rate is "rewarding" to you, then other events are even more rewarding.

    And no, everyone have a gold chest isn't almost a promise of items if it doesn't drop in your chests.

    Also, VW is almost too easy as an event, some ppl when they play the game, they more or less wants something that isn't killed in 1~2 min with nearly 100% win rate.....but I guess it's nice to have both harder and easy event to suit every player's needs, so I wouldn't say easy is a bad thing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sephiran View Post

    Let's also define "everyone" and "elite". You can only do Nyzul Isle Uncharted Investigation with the very best of players with the very best of gear. You have to be hardcore and border nigh on perfect...

    ...and that's just to make it to floor 80.

    Now, does Voidwatch have the same requirements? No. It does not. Is it completely luck based? No. Is rewarding without insane preparation? Yes. Is it forgiving in the event of a failure? Yes.

    /bits more troll bait


    No, Nyzul doesn't require "elite" player. Go to Port Jeuno, check how many ppl have Nyzul gears, majority of players has.

    If it requires "elite" player, you will see only 1~2 players wearing them once in a life time. But you can see many players wearing it every day.

    So how does Nyzul requires "elite" "best geared" player?


    When I finished Nyzul back at April/May, the gears I used on my BLU are: Lv 85 Almace(which isn't the best, because 90/95/99 almace are better), +2 STR magian sword(which isn't the best either, cuz it's not fully upgraded), +5 STR rings(which also isn't the best, cuz there are +7 STR rings), Suppa/Brutal full time(which also isn't the best, cuz you're supposed to swap them when you WS/use spell), no proper req WS neck, I also did not have any proper WS/TP head/neck and WS belt, and had to borrow them from friends. And I did not use any 3rd pt tool either(that's also inferior to ppl that used)

    I'm not hardcore, nor near perfect, but I still finished Nyzul after 1 month. So how does the statement of needing hardcore and elite to clear nyzul be true. Although I agree that Nyzul is harder than VW as content.

    If there's anything wrong about reward effort ratio, then the biggest problem is, VW being easier content but takes longer to get gears, while Nyzul being a bit harder but doesn't take as long to get gears, which just isn't right.

    If Nyzul can be done in 1~2 months on a subpar geared player, then VW, being easier content should be done faster, but not slower.

    But no matter how I see it, VW is less rewarding than Nyzul. I do agree that there are something that's still good about VW, for example, it's pretty relaxing. If you have random schedule, or in different timezone, you can still log on anytime and start doing it with /shout pt. You can't do so with Legion/Nyzul etc, as it's not /shout friendly and you need to play as same time as other ppl. Majority of VW is easy enough with no real chance of wipe/fail if done correctly, and requires less focus level than Neo Nyzul/legion. It also offers a lot of EXP/cruor, so nice way to get them fast too. As a causal friendly event, it's certainly not a "bad" event to participate, at least.

    However, the fact that you need to do hundred and hundred of VW to get item, pretty much just says "gtfo" to real causals, real causals isn't going to spend hours to /shout, camp /shout, and spam same NM for 1000 times for certain items.

    That's why many ppl dislike VW, it's not rewarding, average players will feel it takes too long and frustrated to get drops, and it has no real challenage for any hardcore/elite players.
    (2)
    Last edited by Afania; 09-19-2012 at 11:56 AM.

  5. #15
    Player Sephiran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    106
    Character
    Sephiran
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    No, this is not an attempt at trolling. And furthermore, I already said I withdrew my argument.

    However, I want to know then...Is it seriously possible to take a non-Duardabla BRD in Nyzul Uncharted and make at least floor 80?
    (1)

  6. #16
    Player detlef's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,640
    Character
    Philemon
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    I wouldn't ever go on BRD to Nyzul. You don't bring enough to the table and your buffs take too long to cast.
    (2)

  7. #17
    Player Sephiran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    106
    Character
    Sephiran
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Then can you take PLD to Nyzul? What about RNG without Gandiva? What about SCH without an Embrava setup? What about RDM without...hmm...okay I got nothin'. What about RDM with everything?

    Addendum (pun semi-intended): Do I think it's possible to take these jobs with the aforementioned setups in? Yes. Do I think that parties for Nyzul Uncharted will be flexible enough to let me in with these jobs? No.
    (0)
    Last edited by Sephiran; 09-19-2012 at 04:08 PM.

  8. #18
    Player Kristal's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,552
    Character
    Kristal
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by saevel View Post
    When fighting older content you would never have to fight a monster 200 times for an item.
    When fighting older content, you had to fight a monster 200 times if you weren't best buddies with the LS leader. Assuming they didn't come up with fake violations of unwritten rules to kick you back down the list when it was your turn. (In my case, that was bringing PUP to a sky pop farm session instead of being RDM #5.)
    (1)
    "Puppetmaster was our last best hope for peace. It failed.
    Now it's our last best hope.. for victory!"

  9. #19
    Player saevel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,345
    Character
    Saevel
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Kristal View Post
    When fighting older content, you had to fight a monster 200 times if you weren't best buddies with the LS leader. Assuming they didn't come up with fake violations of unwritten rules to kick you back down the list when it was your turn. (In my case, that was bringing PUP to a sky pop farm session instead of being RDM #5.)
    Ummm no...

    I've been in my fair share of EGLS / HNM's shells, even the unfair stupid ones. And at no time did someone have to fight something 200 hundred times, the drop rates don't work out that way. If your low priority or don't have points (depending on loot system) then you may have to wait 12~20 before being allowed to lot or gaining priority.
    (2)
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelix
    Ragnarok's aftermath is only 5% crit rate, even with lv99, so there's almost no point in using Scourge, you just spam Resolution. Even then you become just a boring meathead DD.

    Apoc with both Catastrophe and Entropy gives you crazy sustain of both HP and MP. With the Haste aftermath you can wear a ton of -PDT and solo almost any 75 content.
    Doing damage is for WAR's, DRK is about soloing 75 content yo.....

  10. #20
    Player Daniel_Hatcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San d'Oria
    Posts
    2,577
    Character
    Alvian
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 12
    Quote Originally Posted by saevel View Post
    When fighting older content you would never have to fight a monster 200 times for an item
    True, but you also had to wait 24~72 hours before potentially fighting one NM for one chance at the best items, that or wait plenty of times to get the pops to pop and NM to get another pop for one NM.

    At least the 200 times can be done in a few days and quite a few people will also gain that item and more in NM fights you could probably do with your eyes closed... Voidwatch is bad, but old style NM's were just as tedious, it's just easy for people to forget that.

    VW is bad, the old hNM system and timed/forced pop NM's was bad, about the only thing that wasn't was Abyssea.
    (3)
    Last edited by Daniel_Hatcher; 09-19-2012 at 07:43 PM.

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