Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 58
  1. #1
    Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,401

    Gungnir needs to be addressed.

    This is probably the billionth time a player has suggested something like this in the past 7 years since Relics were introduced but maybe this time something will change. I hope persistence pays off.

    Gungnir is a powerful weapon no doubt. The strongest relic? Nay. But a powerful polearm in its own respect. There are two problems with Gungnir that need to be addressed.

    Problem The First

    Geirskogul's Aftermath.

    The aftermath effect given to this lowly WS was Shock Spikes. Why it was given Shock Spikes nobody but the Developer in charge of battle content or items will know. My hypothesis is that back in 2004 it was surmised that DRG should have some kind of defensive attribute given to it that was also kind of offensive and would stun the mob upon hitting the DRG whenever the DRG pulled some kind of hate. That seems okay on paper but there are several flaws with that.
    1) The Shock Spikes effects the DRG gains from Geirskogul aftermath are extremely puny. The Spikes deal 14-18 damage to most things and the stun effect rate is about the same as the BLM version of the spell (~5%).
    2)Back when the weapon was created, DRG was already considered a flimsy damage dealer with subpar abilities and weapon skills that the notion of giving them a semi-defensive ability such as shockspikes was laughable because a DRG rarely drew hate ever unless there was a terrible situation where the tank died.

    Fast forward to 2012, at level 99 the aftermath is even more of a joke now than ever. There's no point in using this WS for its aftermath because the shock spikes are extremely weak and the stun almost never activates. I don't know why the aftermath effects of relic weapons were not better balanced. Ragnarok is an extremely powerful relic and the icing on the cake is that Scourge's aftermath increases critical hit rate even further. Many melee relics add a useful, beneficial buff that increases damage output via enhanced crit(Mandau/Ragnarok) or a defensive trait (Bravura/Spharai/Excalibur). But by far the shock spikes effect on Gungnir's WS aftermath is a laughable joke, it's terrible, it's weak, the stun never procs, it doesn't even serve its purpose which was probably to buy the DRG a few seconds of time by stunning the mob so the DRG could either super jump or run away.

    The second problem
    All relics seem to have a unique attribute whether it's a special bonus on the weapon(Ragnarok's Critical Hit+ bonus), the damage of the WS(Mandau/Annhilator) a property if the weapon skill(Catastrophe's HP drain) or the aftermath effect(Mandau/Ragnarok/Guttler). Gungnir un fortunately has none of these. The Weapon skill is very weak and has an unreasonable AGI modifier for reasons unknown(DRG has one of the LOWEST AGI ratings in the game and gets almost no AGI gear), the aftermath is terrible as outlined in the previous paragraph, and there is no unique enhancement on the weapon that gets stronger with magian trials like Ragnarok's critical hit bonus. The only unique effect Gungnir was given was "Additional Effect: Defense Down"

    Would it be possible to make this Defense Down a unique debuff that cannot be overwritten by any other source(Acid Bolt, Angon, Tourbillion) such that the effect is unique only to Gungnir and either stacks with other forms of defense down or is powerful enough effect that overwrites the others? There is nothing special about Gungnir except for the fact that it's the highest base damage polearm and has +40 accuracy, which every other 2handed relic have. Besides that, the unique bonuses from the WS and aftermath add nothing tactical for the job. Giving a unique and powerful defense down effect that can stack with other effects would make the weapon actually useful and rewarding for a player whose favorite job is DRG. The current power of the defense down is ~17%, I would be happy if the defense down was even lowered to 10% as long as it stacked with Angon or other defense down effects. Or perhaps increase the potency to 33% defense down but make the effect unstackable and irreplaceable with other forms of defense down. EIther way there should be something unique to Gungnir to make it stand out rather than just simply being a high DPS weapon. Most other relics have unique bonuses, strong WS, or very good aftermaths, gungnir has none of these!


    3) Why can the special damage multiplier of Yoichinoyumi and Annihilator's apply to Barrage but Gungnir's can't proc on Jumps?

    4) The Defense Down proc on Gungnir overwrites Angon. This is annoying not only because they don't stack but because Angon is more potent and it's undesirable to have a weaker effect overwrite a stronger one.

    Suggestion for alternative aftermath effect: Replace Shock Spikes with
    "Additional Effect: Damage varies with Wyvern HP." This is basically the exact same bonus as Excalibur's "Additional Effect: Damage Varies with HP" but instead of the player's HP determining the value of the additional damage, the Wyvern's HP would be the determining factor. The animation for the additional effect could even be an 'Enthunder' effect (opposed to Excalibur's Enlight effect) which would fit with the lore of Gungnir having lightning properties.
    (142)
    Last edited by Ophannus; 03-16-2013 at 01:30 PM.

  2. #2
    Player Aarahs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    118
    Character
    Aarahs
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    DRG Lv 99
    Pro-tip: don't use the relic weaponskill. There's nothing stopping you from using stardiver.
    (13)

  3. #3
    Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,401
    Obviously. But many relic WS are very good i.e Onslaught/Catastrophe/Mercy Stroke/Kaiten. Some are good mainly for the aftermath they grant. Gungnir has neither a good WS nor a good aftermath.
    (27)

  4. #4
    Player Rekin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    128
    Quote Originally Posted by Aarahs View Post
    Pro-tip: don't use the relic weaponskill. There's nothing stopping you from using stardiver.
    Good job missing the point.

    I agree with You Ophannus the weapon as a whole is very lackluster compare to it's peers and design is very flawed. I would love to see some new traits and changes to let it sync with the job more.

    Anyone else notice how odd geirskogul's mod is AGI when thunder the element Gungnir seems to be all about is DEX? I know the game is old and I know SE and their devs aren't in a rush to make their game pretty anymore but some care would be appreciated.
    (24)
    It doesn't take much to know when someone is special. After 5 minutes if the person is alive and well you have a keeper, if they are dead and obnoxious then toss em like two day old leftovers.

  5. #5
    Player loldrg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    13
    Character
    Relryc
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    DRG Lv 99
    And while they're at it, make it look like Odin's Gungnir dammit. I haven't played in about 6 months, my favorite job was DRG, i got it "the old fashion" way, sponsoring Dyna runs back when Seraph still existed. Was quite an accomplishment for myself and the Dyna LS i was in. While i loved the weapon i agree completely that it needs to be revamped. /drg gear such as the lv 30 earring gives 5% haste, where the developers got the idea that shock spikes belonged with the job with a AGI mod is beyond common logic.
    (5)

  6. #6
    Player Insaniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,003
    Character
    Insaniak
    World
    Lakshmi
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    The shock spikes were probably intended for solo utility. The weapon should do something for your wyvern. Increased breath potency or wyvern HP, Drain HP for your wyvern like cata or Wyvern acc/att/haste.
    (5)
    ↓ Trolling sapling ↓

  7. #7
    Player Rekin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    128
    Quote Originally Posted by Insaniac View Post
    The shock spikes were probably intended for solo utility. The weapon should do something for your wyvern. Increased breath potency or wyvern HP, Drain HP for your wyvern like cata or Wyvern acc/att/haste.
    That is the only reasonable thing I can think of for the WS's purpose. Otherwise I am hardpressed to find any real use for it. The damage is terrible, the additional effect is horrible and as a whole it is a waste of data.
    (5)
    It doesn't take much to know when someone is special. After 5 minutes if the person is alive and well you have a keeper, if they are dead and obnoxious then toss em like two day old leftovers.

  8. #8
    Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,401
    If you could afford 400m back in 2004 chances are you didn't need to solo.
    (8)

  9. #9
    Player Unctgtg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Sandoria
    Posts
    361
    Character
    Unctgtg
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    DRK Lv 99
    I agree with you that Gungnir needs to be addressed. I know my Catastrophe now has some nice HP drain and the haste effect after is still nice. Has saved my life more times then not.
    (4)
    99 Drk, 99 Sch, 99 Bst, 99 Geo and a ton of other jobs there
    110 +5 Bonecraft
    Level 99 Relic Scythe

  10. #10
    Player Rekin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    128
    Quote Originally Posted by Unctgtg View Post
    I agree with you that Gungnir needs to be addressed. I know my Catastrophe now has some nice HP drain and the haste effect after is still nice. Has saved my life more times then not.
    That is the disparity between wses/effects/aftermaths I hope we see addressed to gungnir and other relics. Honestly many relic weaponskills really don't cut it as far as "check out this super amazing weapon skill that can totally change how you play your job now that you've spent a great deal of time obtaining this weapon!"
    (4)
    It doesn't take much to know when someone is special. After 5 minutes if the person is alive and well you have a keeper, if they are dead and obnoxious then toss em like two day old leftovers.

Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 ... LastLast