Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 64
  1. #31
    Player Doombringer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    365
    Character
    Buzzwords
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    i'm sorry but.. as i understand it.. isn't the current issue with pld that everybody and there brother can cap enmity near instantly through dmg? i suppose the abilities where you drain enmity from pt members could HELP, but you need to consider that you're likely to be at or near the hate cap anyway, so most of what you drain won't help you. then the melees are likely to re-cap hate very quickly, and after taking even 1 hit worth of dmg, the pld loses hate again.

    i think the whole enmity system needs a tweaking more than pld specifically
    (0)
    Last edited by Doombringer; 04-02-2011 at 08:48 AM.

  2. #32
    Player Greatguardian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    3,238
    The issue has never had anything at all to do with Enmity. You just have crap PLDs who can't reach the hate cap complaining about DDs who can. Even if PLD could get more Enmity than DDs, why would you bring a PLD to anything?

    As long as Random MNK A has more hate than Random WHM B, it doesn't matter if they have 10,000 Enmity Units or 100,000. MNK *Takes Less Damage Than Paladin*, Deals more damage than Paladin, has more HP than Paladin, feeds less TP than Paladin, and is generally better than Paladin *at this stage of the game*.

    If the Devs were shortsighted enough to actually take the player-pushed Enmity tweak route, they'd only have a few practical options.

    Option 1: Reduce Enmity gained from dealing damage. Okay. It now takes a DD 60 seconds to cap hate instead of 30 seconds. Or, they could make the nerf absolutely extreme, but how would that help PLD? Every. Single. Mage. In the entire game is more durable than PLD. If JAs and Spells become the only way to garner sufficient quantities of Enmity, RDM would become a tanking King while DDs and Blms pound on NMs mercilessly without any fear of reprisal.

    Option 2: Increase the Enmity gained through healing, Spells, and JAs. All this would do is, again, bring RDM tanking back. RDM is a hundred times more durable than Paladin, and needs significantly less support. Non-Whms would also get an epic nerfstick as Healers because Cure V would be the only safe cure spell left. This would just destroy mage balance, and still won't make PLD wanted.

    Option 3: Give PLD a Class-Specific CE/VE cap of 12,000 units, capping at 24,000 TE. This is one that's been suggested a lot. But ... why would this make me want a PLD? Sure, a PLD can now keep hate off a MNK. But ... PLD takes more damage than MNK. PLD requires more support than MNK. MNK gains a huge damage bonus when it is tanking, PLD does not. PLD having more hate than a MNK will *Reduce the amount of damage being dealt to the NM, and increase the burden on the support*. All the more reason never to let anyone come PLD to things, as they'll just get in the way.

    No combination of any of these things is going to help PLD at all. If people want to seriously buff anything about PLD's defensive ability, make all shield procs deal 0 damage and tweak Reprisal to have a Duration which is, at minimum, 50% of its recast so that it can be potentially fulltimed.

    This still won't make them deal damage remotely comparable to a MNK, but it levels the defensive playing field. It won't make PLD more wanted, but it will make them less of a burden. Beyond that, if PLDs want to be useful for something, they'd need a meaningful offensive ability. Enlight was a nice try, but overall it's absolutely worthless to cast. I really don't want another Magic-based buff either. Dark Knight gets these all the time and it's plain to see that they do absolutely nothing to help it offensively. You will never, ever see a DRK stop swinging his sword to cast Fire III even if he gets some TP from it.
    (0)

    I will have my revenge!

  3. #33
    Player Gallus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    72
    Character
    Gallus
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 99
    Added some more ideas in adjustment. Always appreciate input. I do read it all and it does oftentimes affect the ideas that I add to the original post. Put a lot of thought into this post some days while I'm driving around and end up coming back to make the changes. Keep in mind, this is more of a personal pet project than anything else that I'm just throwing out there to share, but I really do hope S-E reads up and that it might provide some solid ideas for adjustment in the future.
    (0)
    Last edited by Gallus; 04-08-2011 at 11:59 PM.

  4. #34
    Player
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1
    I've been out of the game a while, but many of the issues you've been discussing have been present since people discovered that PLD/NIN could offhand joytoy and pump out decent Vorpal Blades. :/
    (If you know why an Espadon was cool, you rock.)

    The requirement to fix PLD is extreme, it always has been. It requires an over haul of the base systems, because it relies on systems that are broken.

    Step 1: Fix defense. Any PLD will tell you that Defense isn't worth the pixels it takes to render. Defense needs to carry with it a PDT- ability, possibly being enhanced by PLD traits. (JA's are not acceptable, if you want a PLD to really be a PLD, he has to get hit, a lot.)

    Step 2: Fix utsu. Make shadows that are hit give TP. That's right. Gives TP. After all, the mob actually hit the shadow, right? It still leaves shadow tanking as an option, but it removes a perk that should not have been allowed to get so abused.

    Step 3: Remove/Reduce TP gain when striking a PLD. Lv40 or something sounds good. Shadows are now making even MNK's total TP whores, PLD's would be the only ones immune.

    Step 4: Fix shields. If I block with my shield, I expect to see 0 dmg, unless a mob has a special 'pierce armor' trait, in which case it should be ~25% tops. This also extends to Reprisal.

    Finally, Step 5: Fix enmity loss. When a mob hits my PLD in the face, I laugh at the mob and explain how fat it's mother is. Thus, I suggest the trait "Incorrigible - Paladin back talks mob with every hit, reducing enmity loss when struck".

    (100% optional) Step 6: I'd love to see some sexeh regen.

    Also, If you are DD'ing on a PLD then you obviously picked your job in the dark. It doesn't matter if they can keep up, it doesn't matter if you're "just as good as a <insert current fad DD>"; you are a PLD. We protect our party and alliance by being the guy (or gal) that steps up and takes one for the team, in the face.
    (1)

  5. #35
    Player Lutschfactor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Sandoria
    Posts
    33
    Character
    Packboy
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 90
    great. just tell me one thing. hope i dont piss u off asking u. but how does mnk take less damage then pld?
    (0)

  6. #36
    Player Greatguardian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    3,238
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutschfactor View Post
    great. just tell me one thing. hope i dont piss u off asking u. but how does mnk take less damage then pld?
    I'll set their Evasion to 0 to even the playing field, even though MNK has a higher Eva than PLD. But just a quick glance at defensive traits:

    MNK has Counterstance, which blocks 75% of all incoming non-TP move attacks.

    PLD has a Shield, which reduces a Maximum of 65% of incoming hits to, what, 30% damage?

    Where a MNK is taking 25% of incoming damage (with capped Subtle Blow and Penance reducing incoming TP moves further), PLD is taking 54.5% of incoming damage.

    Defense is absolutely broken in FFXI. Monster Attack is so high that the difference between how much a PLD gets hit for with 450 defense and how much a MNK gets hit for with 45 defense is practically null. Enemies are attack capped, or near attack capped, either way. If their Attack is capped on us anyways, taking away more Defense doesn't make any difference at all. Capped is capped.
    (0)

    I will have my revenge!

  7. #37
    Player Lutschfactor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Sandoria
    Posts
    33
    Character
    Packboy
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 90
    idk, i just dont see it that way. eventho u may. i just always see our mnks getting the crap beat out of them and i honestly laugh to myself. i like them and all. but can tank worth a crap in this. and i will never bleive anyone who says they can. thats just my opinion...then again i also hate nin to...so ya im hostile to mnk and nins lol

    one last question. where or how did u gett aht sig u have. thats pretty cool.
    (0)
    Last edited by Lutschfactor; 04-15-2011 at 12:45 PM.

  8. #38
    Player Greatguardian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    3,238
    Bias goggles.

    PLD gets the shit beaten out of it just as hard, if not harder. Plus pretty much any MNK that gets killed by anything these days is probably absolute suck, or has an absolute suck WHM. An absolute suck PLD, or one with an absolute suck WHM, is no better off.
    (0)

    I will have my revenge!

  9. #39
    Player Zumi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    901
    Character
    Zumi
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    I swear Divine Protection reduces all incoming damage by 20% for 10 sec, oh wait that's another game.
    (0)

  10. #40
    Player Eklm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1
    Character
    Eklm
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 90
    Honestly, I don't see how its difficult at all for SE to fix Pld. They mainly would need to do 3 things:

    1. Make it so all jobs lose less hate from getting hit and players gain less hate from dealing damage. I know this will make it hard for a blm who is all out nuking or an impressively geared War to stay alive if they get hate.....but it will also make it alot harder for them to take hate from a Pld (or Nin and Mnk) in the first place.

    2. Give Pld more tools for taking hate from others. Thfs have tools to redirect hate onto themselves. Why not give Pld an ability to take the hate generated by another player and put them on themselves?

    3. Change Circle Abilities. Now hear me out on this one. Everyone has been asking for a way to give Pld a higher hate cap over other players. This cannot happen because other jobs who may want to take hate from a Pld can't and it will make other jobs like Nin and Mnk less desired. Well the easiest way to change this is to take a useless ability (the Circle abilities) and change them to a 5 min duration and 5 minute recast and make them so they lower the enmity cap on players in the party it hits.

    How will this be different then giving Pld a higher enmity cap? Well if your a Nin or Mnk who wants to co-tank....all you need to do is remove the circle buff. This is also the case if another job needs to take hate because the Pld is in bad shape or for whatever reason.
    (0)
    Last edited by Eklm; 05-06-2011 at 08:55 AM.

Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 ... LastLast