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Thread: Enmity Cap

  1. #11
    Player Mirage's Avatar
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    Different caps for different jobs means it will eventually be impossible to take hate from the job with the highest cap. To take an extreme example. A PLD could be hitting the monster for 10 damage every second and still have hate over a DD that deals 50000 damage per second, or a mage that heals 50000 hp per second. I'm sure you can see the problem with something like that.
    (0)

  2. #12
    Player Blah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirage View Post
    Different caps for different jobs means it will eventually be impossible to take hate from the job with the highest cap. To take an extreme example. A PLD could be hitting the monster for 10 damage every second and still have hate over a DD that deals 50000 damage per second, or a mage that heals 50000 hp per second. I'm sure you can see the problem with something like that.
    Um...which is why I said to have each job with high enmity gear so each would be able to increase their enmity cap at any time, it's why I put quotation marks around the word normal. To illustrate that with gear they should be allowed to change that cap as the situation demands. So...that...no...one...job...can...monopolize...the...enmity...hopefully.
    (0)

  3. #13
    Player Kavik's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Sandy
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    Character
    Kavik
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    So.. after recent enmity update, we were doing Ark Angel Galka on Normal difficulty to get 2 ls members the clear. To make this perfectly clear I am MAIN job pld. I am durable. I dislike all my other jobs and prefer to do everything as pld. Which means I spend a LOT of time ATTEMPTING to tank. After this latest update it took 3 minutes for the blu and mnk to hit enmity cap instead of 2. The galka promptly turned around and one-shotted the blu. a few minutes later, he did the same to the mnk. The pup, who happens to be a highly skilled pup, kept his enmity low by using merit abilities and deactivate. Most groups prefer rng's for decoy shot. This is risky because if you have a crappy rng (read ignorant player) you're going to lose no matter how good their gear is. The galka hits me for max of 250 with his WS's and skillchains, most of his regular attacks do 0. The last 18% were spent with the Galka turning from me to the mnk every time one of us performed an action, which, because he was mnk and i was pld.... he was tanking. Until it killed him. JUST STOP GIVING US SHITTY ENMITY UPDATES. This is like when i went to get fast food and said 5 times i wanted 12 tacos and they kept saying 4. It's either do dmg or watch you're enmity. There is no in-between as the game stands. Please stop shafting the tanks. These updates are NOT enough, your player base is not happy with this slip shod stand on it. Make us what we were intended to be a protector of our party via keeping the mobs attention.

    Solutions... Simple ones:
    Make enmity merits effect you're enmity cap <--this way any person who wants to tank can
    make enmity +/- on GEAR effect enmity cap <-- this way any job who chooses to tank can tank by stacking the gear for it.
    As i mentioned previously, make animous augeo/minuo do SOMETHING, could also use the (useless) brd spells in the same way so it's not ONLY sch.
    Remove the enmity cap or make it changeable by job
    Make passive enmity decay vastly faster talking about 10x what it is now.
    Increase the most recent adjustments by about 50x <- easiest maybe since you already did it once?

    Please just make sweeping changes to this. I promise no one will be upset that the tank can actually hold the mobs attention the majority of the time.
    (2)
    FFXI forever! 99 PLD THF DRG DNC WHM SCH BRD BLM BLU BST
    Burtgang Excalibur Aegis Ochain


  4. #14
    Player Selindrile's Avatar
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    Jan 2012
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    Character
    Selindrile
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    I was the Monk in the above scenario, I did get WS'd down in one hit in my PDT gear Dragonfall to clear my shadows > fudo , I was casting another utsu at the time I died, yes Scherzo would've made the difference here, but it wasn't worth the DPS sacrifice, generally, we still recovered and won, but, neither of these things is the issue. Though, I also only died once >.> so I'm not sure where the second death description comes in.

    I don't agree with everything Kavik says above, but, I definitely agree that the current patch didn't do enough to change the way enmity works. I basically had my back to the AA for 2/3rds of the fight after I'd capped hate, and only was hitting it after it had just WS, then turned and reapplied utsusemi after a hit or two, really annoying. I'd sit there with my back turned for 15 seconds or so, turn around after it ws'd and it would instantly be on me again...

    Just throwing this out there, as it occurred to me... you know /Heal, how it generates enmity (or just raises your place on the enmity list, not exactly sure, but everyone knows /heal affects enmity and does something to increase it in some way.

    What if it did the OPPOSITE, every "Tic" that you regain HP/MP, you also lose say 20% of max enmity, perhaps modified by Enmity- gear, so on Monk, instead of just turning, I could've ran a bit away, /heal'd for 30 seconds, and then have been able to hop into the battle fresh and been able to properly DD for a while again.

    No scary "imbalance" because people still can't go crazy damage wise without consequences, you don't have to add any new JA to every job to help with enmity, or anything like that.
    (1)
    Last edited by Selindrile; 02-20-2014 at 01:49 PM.

  5. #15
    Player Kavik's Avatar
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    Sandy
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    Character
    Kavik
    World
    Fenrir
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    PLD Lv 99
    mnk every time one of us performed an action, which, because he was mnk and i was pld.... he was tanking.
    ^ this bit should say blu. My bad.
    (0)
    FFXI forever! 99 PLD THF DRG DNC WHM SCH BRD BLM BLU BST
    Burtgang Excalibur Aegis Ochain


  6. #16
    Player Louispv's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Character
    Louispv
    World
    Carbuncle
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    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirage View Post
    Different caps for different jobs means it will eventually be impossible to take hate from the job with the highest cap. To take an extreme example. A PLD could be hitting the monster for 10 damage every second and still have hate over a DD that deals 50000 damage per second, or a mage that heals 50000 hp per second. I'm sure you can see the problem with something like that.
    SE doesn't seem to have a problem with it in 14, where the tanks have effectively a 20% higher hate cap than everyone else. Plus provoke just straight up puts you as number 1 on the hate list, no matter how high up anyone else is. The only way you pull hate is if you go all out the second the fight starts, before the tank can even act, or if the tank goes AFK and stops taking any action at all.

    I don't really understand why letting DD's pull hate off the tank is a good game design. You're punishing the tank for tanking too well by making him lose hate when he is the one tanking, and you're punishing the DD's for DD'ing too well, by killing them. It's counterintuitive.
    (5)

  7. #17
    Player Tennotsukai's Avatar
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    Apr 2011
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    Character
    Tennotsukai
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    Blu spells also add too much enmity. I understand that blue mage pseudo-tanking was a thing, but it is almost impossible for a job other than pld to tank AAs. Please, fix this. I would be cool tanking on blue mage if we had better defensive spells, but we do not.
    (0)

  8. #18
    Player Martel's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Character
    Martel
    World
    Ragnarok
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    DRG Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Tennotsukai View Post
    Blu spells also add too much enmity. I understand that blue mage pseudo-tanking was a thing, but it is almost impossible for a job other than pld to tank AAs. Please, fix this. I would be cool tanking on blue mage if we had better defensive spells, but we do not.
    Good god, no! /BLU has the best selection of enmity spells left to PLD. Please, do not encourage SE to nerf them. The /RDM nerf hurt enough.
    (2)

  9. #19
    Player
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    Dec 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martel View Post
    Good god, no! /BLU has the best selection of enmity spells left to PLD. Please, do not encourage SE to nerf them. The /RDM nerf hurt enough.
    The real solution here is to nerf /BLU and give PLD itself better enmity options so it doesn't have to rely on a subjob in order to produce enmity.
    (2)

  10. #20
    Player Aeron's Avatar
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    Oct 2011
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    137
    Character
    Lanselot
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Kavik View Post
    So.. after recent enmity update, we were doing Ark Angel Galka on Normal difficulty to get 2 ls members the clear. To make this perfectly clear I am MAIN job pld. I am durable. I dislike all my other jobs and prefer to do everything as pld. Which means I spend a LOT of time ATTEMPTING to tank. After this latest update it took 3 minutes for the blu and mnk to hit enmity cap instead of 2. The galka promptly turned around and one-shotted the blu. a few minutes later, he did the same to the mnk. The pup, who happens to be a highly skilled pup, kept his enmity low by using merit abilities and deactivate. Most groups prefer rng's for decoy shot. This is risky because if you have a crappy rng (read ignorant player) you're going to lose no matter how good their gear is. The galka hits me for max of 250 with his WS's and skillchains, most of his regular attacks do 0. The last 18% were spent with the Galka turning from me to the mnk every time one of us performed an action, which, because he was mnk and i was pld.... he was tanking. Until it killed him. JUST STOP GIVING US SHITTY ENMITY UPDATES. This is like when i went to get fast food and said 5 times i wanted 12 tacos and they kept saying 4. It's either do dmg or watch you're enmity. There is no in-between as the game stands. Please stop shafting the tanks. These updates are NOT enough, your player base is not happy with this slip shod stand on it. Make us what we were intended to be a protector of our party via keeping the mobs attention.

    Solutions... Simple ones:
    Make enmity merits effect you're enmity cap <--this way any person who wants to tank can
    make enmity +/- on GEAR effect enmity cap <-- this way any job who chooses to tank can tank by stacking the gear for it.
    As i mentioned previously, make animous augeo/minuo do SOMETHING, could also use the (useless) brd spells in the same way so it's not ONLY sch.
    Remove the enmity cap or make it changeable by job
    Make passive enmity decay vastly faster talking about 10x what it is now.
    Increase the most recent adjustments by about 50x <- easiest maybe since you already did it once?

    Please just make sweeping changes to this. I promise no one will be upset that the tank can actually hold the mobs attention the majority of the time.
    the above suggestions are some of the best that I have seen on the forums so far and the DEV team should implement them. Not only will they allow plds to tank effectively it will also break the current party setup of rng rng pld brd whm for current endgame content.
    (1)

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