surefire way to get SE to drop ps2 support

[Tsuneo]

Oh look, it's this thread again.

[oliveira]

Oh look, it's this thread again.

Missing the meme picture, man ... /facepalm

[Spiritreaver]

Put this in another "Drop PS2" thread, here it is again

FinalFantasy.de: There is no version of Final Fantasy XI for the PS3. Are there any plans to develop one? In Europe, there are no HDDs available for the PS2.

A: At the moment, there are no plans to develop a PS3 version. They already have the PS2 game, and they plan to continue supporting the PS2. They don't feel it would be the best use of resources to work on the PS3. Unfortunately, Square Enix is not a hardware manufacturer. They would love to release a HDD, but there is nothing they can do.

Link

[Doctrine]

it seems a lot of people's sarcasm detector is broken

this was, in essence, a joke/satire thread. a lot of people takin it seriously. can't believe i got away with that

[Arcon]

I play on the PS2 and, really, don't see any reasons to stop.

Let me give you some:

• Better graphics (in several aspects)
• Better controls
• Less lag
• Ability to multibox
• Windower plugins
• Have both TV and PS2 ready for use (there's many games worth playing on the PS2, FFXI is not one of them)

If every PS2 died tomorrow and every PS2 user switched to PC the day after it wouldn't change a damn thing.

Two days after it might. Announcing a proper expansion at this point is much more significant than many people seem to realize; it's a sign that they haven't given up on improving this game, something that many people already assumed after the last few disappointing updates.

As Spiritreaver said, SE's own motivation plays a crucial role in any further development, and as such killing the PS2 is not a magical fix. It is, however, a huge first step, especially since SE has shown that their motivation isn't completely gone.

this was, in essence, a joke/satire thread. a lot of people takin it seriously. can't believe i got away with that

Contrary to popular belief, people don't own the threads they start. I don't think anyone took your post seriously, but it did give fuel to a serious debate, which isn't surprising, considering the topic. This is something people will be arguing about for decades to come, even after the PS2 has been killed (I give it five more years, personally).

[Spiritreaver]

1) Let me give you some:

• Better graphics (in several aspects)
  
• Better controls
  
• Less lag
  
• Ability to multibox
• Windower plugins
  
• Have both TV and PS2 ready for use (there's many games worth playing on the PS2, FFXI is not one of them)

2)Two days after it might. Announcing a proper expansion at this point is much more significant than many people seem to realize; it's a sign that they haven't given up on improving this game, something that many people already assumed after the last few disappointing updates.


3)As Spiritreaver said, SE's own motivation plays a crucial role in any further development, and as such killing the PS2 is not a magical fix. It is, however, a huge first step, especially since SE has shown that their motivation isn't completely gone.


4)Contrary to popular belief, people don't own the threads they start. I don't think anyone took your post seriously, but it did give fuel to a serious debate, which isn't surprising, considering the topic. This is something people will be arguing about for decades to come, even after the PS2 has been killed (I give it five more years, personally).

@1 I struck though the ones that can be done regardless of what platform you run FFXI on. Better graphics and the ability to use plugins are the only ones that actually stand. And of those two, graphics are the only real one of note imo.

@2 Rebuild from the bottom up, code-wise or make what changes are possible for higher end platforms while not 'cutting loose' the lower end; those are the two choices SE had in relation to building the future FFXI experience. They chose the later, which is how i'd do it if i'd been faced with the choice. You keep your whole customer base and do your best to placate the higher end.

@3 A huge step forward...five yrs ago. If SE was ever going to realistically do a full on code rewrite, imo it should have been done before WotG hit. Going further i think MANY things should have been done before WotG went live, but SE was too busy overstepping(IE: FFXIV) when they should have been consolidating their resources behing XI...but then hindsight is 20/20.

@4 This isn't a serious debate. This is an old and tiresome argument that pops up every so often and always ends the same way. Both sides woulda, shoulda, coulda themselves to the point of absurdity; and at the end of the day Japanese players love their PS2s. And until THAT changes, SE isn't going to cut them off. And until they are cut off, SE isn't going to rip up the old carpet and lay in any new.

Graphical updates, UI changes for PC users, and any other nifty things they can throw in for PC users; i'm gonna take them and gladly. Until the root issue of a 10+ yr old game being still supported on a 12+ yr old system is addressed for real by SE, that is.

[Arcon]

You struck through what didn't appeal to you or which you refuse to believe, which is ok, but shouldn't be used as an argumentative tool.

You seem hung up on the "complete rewrite" argument, and I have two things to say to that:
1. It isn't needed. Even very simple things like increasing the inventory would be worth axing the remaining PS2 users to most people.
2. It is possible, and it doesn't seem too far-fetched. How else do you explain the complete UI revamp? PC users already have better interface options (like higher resolution) and now they're enabling a whole slew of new features exclusive for PC users. What indication do you have to suggest they wouldn't wanna push this further?

Whether or not it's a serious debate can't be decided by the topic itself but depends solely on the seriousness of the contributing posts, and at least mine are. I'm not bashing PS2 users, I'm stating facts. Playing on a PS2 is objectively worse than playing on a PC, for some of the reasons I stated above. And it is definitely a hindrance in development. Whether it's the only one or whether it's a bottleneck or not is a different issue.

And five years ago PS2 users were a lot more common than they are today, and at the same time the PS2 wasn't as close to its limits as it is now. Cancelling it sooner may have been better, but I wouldn't be entirely sure about that either, because there were a lot more people who could potentially be upset about it. These days however, the PS2 playing population is vanishingly small, and the PS2 itself is becoming more and more of a hindrance. As time drags on, games evolve. Saying "it's too late" makes no sense; the later it gets, the bigger the relative benefit would be.

[Spiritreaver]

Let me give you some:

• Better graphics (in several aspects)
• Better controls
• Less lag
• Ability to multibox
• Windower plugins
• Have both TV and PS2 ready for use (there's many games worth playing on the PS2, FFXI is not one of them)

Two days after it might. Announcing a proper expansion at this point is much more significant than many people seem to realize; it's a sign that they haven't given up on improving this game, something that many people already assumed after the last few disappointing updates.

As Spiritreaver said, SE's own motivation plays a crucial role in any further development, and as such killing the PS2 is not a magical fix. It is, however, a huge first step, especially since SE has shown that their motivation isn't completely gone.



Contrary to popular belief, people don't own the threads they start. I don't think anyone took your post seriously, but it did give fuel to a serious debate, which isn't surprising, considering the topic. This is something people will be arguing about for decades to come, even after the PS2 has been killed (I give it five more years, personally).

You struck through what didn't appeal to you or which you refuse to believe, which is ok, but shouldn't be used as an argumentative tool.

You seem hung up on the "complete rewrite" argument, and I have two things to say to that:
1. It isn't needed. Even very simple things like increasing the inventory would be worth axing the remaining PS2 users to most people.
2. It is possible, and it doesn't seem too far-fetched. How else do you explain the complete UI revamp? PC users already have better interface options (like higher resolution) and now they're enabling a whole slew of new features exclusive for PC users. What indication do you have to suggest they wouldn't wanna push this further?

Whether or not it's a serious debate can't be decided by the topic itself but depends solely on the seriousness of the contributing posts, and at least mine are. I'm not bashing PS2 users, I'm stating facts. Playing on a PS2 is objectively worse than playing on a PC, for some of the reasons I stated above. And it is definitely a hindrance in development. Whether it's the only one or whether it's a bottleneck or not is a different issue.

And five years ago PS2 users were a lot more common than they are today, and at the same time the PS2 wasn't as close to its limits as it is now. Cancelling it sooner may have been better, but I wouldn't be entirely sure about that either, because there were a lot more people who could potentially be upset about it. These days however, the PS2 playing population is vanishingly small, and the PS2 itself is becoming more and more of a hindrance. As time drags on, games evolve. Saying "it's too late" makes no sense; the later it gets, the bigger the relative benefit would be.

First i struck through what is preference or opinion. Better graphics and the ability to use plugins are the only 100% factiods on that list. I play on both a PC and console; controls are identical(you can go all kb or kb/controller either way), depending on area and whats going on-lag can be/is just as bad on PC as it is on a console, multi-boxing is controlling multiple characters(anecdotally, i remember when ppl i knew ingame ragged on RMT for doing this back in the day)-which has been possible forever, and having tv and console ready for use is just silly as you can easily reverse that point by having TV/console being used and a PC being freed up for other purposes.


Second A) You should know, since you seem to have a firm grasp of this, that FFXI has crazy 'spaghetti' coding. We've seen it in action tons in the past, i know you have examples that pop to mind. You are gonna sit there and tell me that just ignoring the PS2 coding and layering heavy changes on top of it isn't gonna cause huge problems down the line? No if they aren't going to maintain it, it should be removed.

and

B) I explain it by saying they are NOT ignoring the PS2 coding. They are adding in stuff that can be utilized by a windows based OS, but you best believe they are also paying attention to the PS2 coding(support?) so as to not impede its functionality. See aforementioned 'spaghetti' coding.


Thirdly, playing FFXI on a console can very well be worse than playing on a PC. But that's not the point. The point is SE is still supporting FFXI on a console.

No, you personally aren't bashing console players. And yes, you might be stating fact(i say might because you have no more numbers than me or anyone else NOT SE). The overriding fact of the matter is that until Japanese FFXI players get tired of their PS2/3's, SE isn't cutting the PS2. And until that happens, its workarounds for everyone, which makes all these types of threads 'old and tiresome' as the end result of them is known going in.


And lastly, no. Five years ago FFXI was in a much better position that it is atm. Then would have been the best time to 'strike while the iron is hot' and to have at LEAST started migrating players away from consoles. What went down is pretty well known now, resources were diverted from XI(which was pretty much left on life support) and funneled into XIV instead of building that game up on its own. SE missed the mark there and the price they pay is they lost much ground in building up XI in the form of lost subs, loss of face, and plain old momentum as a company, in the MMO market anyways.

Me personally, i'm just content to play the game at this point. I'm getting too old to be constantly obsessing about what the guy next to me is working with or not working with. I was in my early 20's when FFXI hit the scene and was in the industry(PC hardware as if it matters now); i knew what i was getting into when SE said the game was going to be multiplatform-with all the issues that could entail down the road. If i wanted superflash of substance i would have quit long ago.

[katoplepa]

months ago, wehn abyssea was losing of interest, all the people said : to keep this game alive, we need another expansion! we need another continent! another capital! we need another.... etc.

SE heared and they done the survey, remember? "what system you use to login in the game?" well... I don't know the results, but now the answer is here : drop ps2 support, and release of a new expansion, with a new continent, a new capital, etc.

without new expansions, with new zones and new things to do, the game die, so SE needs to drop the ps2 support to keep this game alive.

you will play this game forever on ps2 even whitout no more expansions, no more new things to do?

[Calamity]

Look, I just wanna know if there are any plans to develop ffxi for my atari 2600. I think it's still a viable console.