I know it's been said but...

[Babekeke]

Culverin /+1 is decent. But handgonne is better, except youre stuck using lv 50 bullets. If the could have access to better ammo, last stand would be a viable option for a weapon skill.

Last Stand IS a viable option for a weaponskill, BUT it's so situational that I eventually scrapped it and went for H2H instead.

I really enjoyed spamming last stand on the eye mob in konschat [A] that takes no damage from melee. TP on the adds then WS the boss, or just tp with /ra on the boss. I only ever used it with xbow though, so damage would have been much greater with a gun, but I wasn't going to carry stacks of cannon shells around with me, and only 7 Handgonnes and 0 +1s have sold on AH so far on Phoenix.

1 fix that would REALLY help, is simply allowing Cannon shells to stack to 99 and/or be pouchable.

[Helel]

Culverin /+1 is decent. But handgonne is better, except youre stuck using lv 50 bullets. If the could have access to better ammo, last stand would be a viable option for a weapon skill.

Are you serious?

Handgonne +1 is Iron bullet (55) + handgonne +1 (48).

Culverin +1 is cannon shell (90) + culverin +1 (51). Culverin +1 also has 20 ranged attack.

Not only do the bullets have 35 higher base damage, but the gun has higher base damage as well. The delay is irrelevant considering you will still be meleeing for tp. Culverin destroys handgonne +1; it's not even remotely close.

[Urteil]

What about new bolts for Thief with additional enfeebling effects?

Such as silence bolts on par with the already existing Kabura Arrows?

[RygaenYuui]

What about new bolts for Thief with additional enfeebling effects?

Such as silence bolts on par with the already existing Kabura Arrows?

Seriously. This is a great idea. If you can believe this much: I currently swap between Ziska's and Failnaught depending on which de-buff I need. (Sad, but that's how I have to juggle it sometimes...)

Apart from those people who don't use bolts at all since they main Raider's Boomerang (...'Cuz I think Bomb Core is obsolete these days), A well landed Acid/Sleep/Blind/Drain bolt helps. It'd be nice to even see a Potency added to the effect.

[Rustic]

As folks have noted- yeah, THF has those status bolts for debuffing mobs.

It'd be child's play to introduce versions of those with more of a punch, along with bullets. Even if they're shooting the equivalent of D:75-80 range with an L85 requirement for bullets and D:40 or so versions of the status bolts, it'd be an improvement. After all, THF can still shoot arrows up to L80 or so along with everyone else, while the RNG/COR domain seems to be anything from L89+. Slipping in the upgrades just below that would not only give more happy crafters (hello, bigger market for better marksmanship stuff) but happy THF's peppering targets with something different than the dinky acid bolts they started using 70 levels prior.

Seriously. How much of your L15 gear do YOU use at L85?

Likewise, new crossbows/guns in the L85 range. Again, it's still a step down from RNG/COR gear, but there's a gap there as well.

[Mirage]

As some of you mentioned, the original purpose of arrows and bolts for thief was not to deal high damage but to be able to impair enemies with the additonal effects. This is the reason why a higher level set of bolts/arrows was not added for thief.

You don't need to bring a THF's ranged abilities up to the level of a ranger or a corsair. There's still a lot of room for improvements. If you want the purpose of ranged attacks by thieves to be to inflict status effects, then you should also consider giving thf a few new types of ammo. Silence bolts would be nice, for example, as would slightly more potent bloody bolts be. Perhaps also attack-lowering bolts would be nice to have, or even (gasp) dispel bolts!

In the case of dispel bolts, I realize you might think it is overpowered to be able to dispel almost non-stop. Perhaps the bolts should have a high delay, and the effect should perhaps not have the highest magic accuracy in the world. I do think that getting a dispel proc around 33% of the time would be all right, though. Firing bolts isn't free (and dispel bolts might be expensive to make too!), and doing several ranged attacks in a row lowers damage output significantly. Additionally, we wouldn't be able to use stat-boosting ammo such as raider's boomerang or other non-usable ammo pieces without losing all our TP whenever switching to a crossbow.

[Rustic]

You don't need to bring a THF's ranged abilities up to the level of a ranger or a corsair. There's still a lot of room for improvements. If you want the purpose of ranged attacks by thieves to be to inflict status effects, then you should also consider giving thf a few new types of ammo. Silence bolts would be nice, for example, as would slightly more potent bloody bolts be. Perhaps also attack-lowering bolts would be nice to have, or even (gasp) dispel bolts!

Just remember, any new effect we're giving to THF with bolts, we're giving to RNG as well in the process. Being able to pepper targets with dispel effects is a rather potent boost, considering being able to steal effects is a significant ability for higher level THFs. Adding silencer bolts isn't going to expand Ranger abilities, though- and that's a good idea. ATK down wouldn't be bad either. I vote making them pepper-spray style.

[Nebo]

considering being able to steal effects is a significant ability for higher level THFs.

If only that were true.

[Mirage]

Just remember, any new effect we're giving to THF with bolts, we're giving to RNG as well in the process. Being able to pepper targets with dispel effects is a rather potent boost, considering being able to steal effects is a significant ability for higher level THFs. Adding silencer bolts isn't going to expand Ranger abilities, though- and that's a good idea. ATK down wouldn't be bad either. I vote making them pepper-spray style.

Well, if the dispel bolts, as i mentioned, had really really bad dps, it wouldn't be that much of an issue. I don't think ranger is an overpowered job either, is it? And if it really would be overpowered to give rangers dispel bolts, make them unequippable by rangers.

[Rustic]

If only that were true.

Operative word: Considered. Players naturally have a different point of view, no? I'm saying that if the devs think "Hey, they can steal buffs anyway", a simple method of removing them via bolt spam might not go over too well.

Well, if the dispel bolts, as i mentioned, had really really bad dps, it wouldn't be that much of an issue. I don't think ranger is an overpowered job either, is it? And if it really would be overpowered to give rangers dispel bolts, make them unequippable by rangers.

If the dispel bolts have cruddy DPS, it's not a big deal- swapping ammo doesn't reduce TP, so as soon as they're done dispelling, back to the regular ammo, just like if I was swapping in a blind or acid shot. And you're not going to see ammo at this point that isn't going to be RNG if THF can equip it. They're the ranged weapon gawds, ergo they get any goodies we do- after all, they have access to all the other status bolts. What I'm saying is a constant ranged Dispel ability for free might be a bit much, as it's almost universally useful and a staple of caster/buff classes.