TH activation rumour

[Dragoy]

Seems more like unintended behaviour than anything, that is, a bug, since they have stated that one only needs to act upon a target for Treasure Hunter to be in effect. Why would the dancer abilities be different?

I can't think of a reason.

Has it been tested only while fighting another target (or while not engaged), or for example, while engaged, yet standing back towards the target so that a step can be used as the first action?

[Babekeke]

I've only noticed it when I've had a link, used a step on the add since I was in dyna and mob I was fighting was procced. I used TH gear to step/flourish the add, then went back to regular gear to finish other mob off, but stayed in regular gear when I moved onto next mob. TH upgrades and it's only the upgrade from TP gear, not full TH.

That said, I've not tried it with my back to a mob and engaged.

[Dragoy]

Yeah, the very reason for thinking about that is that I imagine in most situations people are fighting one monster, and then using the steps or whatever actions on another, that is not their current (claimed) target.

[Starlyte]

Ok I totally stopped reading this and if I repeat anything I am sorry please forgive me my second character is a 99 thief its my favorite job and after countless hrs of swearing I was totally gimped cause th didn't land this is some things I do to help it one I stack s/a bully and feint in one macro with my thf gear of course 90 percent of time it lands but if not and your not alone I Ta someone which we all know that's nothing new. Another thing I noticed and experimented with was daggers I one I noticed have better proc rate with lower delayed daggers vs higher delay higher damage daggers . Because your constantly swingging also if it's something that has high Eva add some more acc gear most of this was mentioned but really its game of chance there is no right wrong way just always seems something don't drop and its thf's fault we all have been there but truly its not .also completely off topic on steal or despoil I have noticed higher success rate after using feint .once again if I said anything that was already posted sorry happy thieving

Also.forgot this when all else fails assasians charge seems to help if you.use it alone not Stacked with wepon.skill have gotten many procs using that way but really I Believe it's more of game of chance then science and I myself do everything to see th go off and any theif gets that .

[Arcon]

Ok I totally stopped reading this and if I repeat anything I am sorry please forgive me my second character is a 99 thief its my favorite job and after countless hrs of swearing I was totally gimped cause th didn't land this is some things I do to help it one I stack s/a bully and feint in one macro with my thf gear of course 90 percent of time it lands but if not and your not alone I Ta someone which we all know that's nothing new. Another thing I noticed and experimented with was daggers I one I noticed have better proc rate with lower delayed daggers vs higher delay higher damage daggers . Because your constantly swingging also if it's something that has high Eva add some more acc gear most of this was mentioned but really its game of chance there is no right wrong way just always seems something don't drop and its thf's fault we all have been there but truly its not .also completely off topic on steal or despoil I have noticed higher success rate after using feint .once again if I said anything that was already posted sorry happy thieving

First of all, TH always lands. You don't need to do anything for that. Only TH upgrades can "land". So even if you don't get the animation, TH is still on the mob.

Secondly, dagger delay plays no role in upgrade rate, other than the fact that lower delay daggers will yield more hits in the same time frame. But the chance on each hit is the same.

Finally, while it hasn't been formally disproved, it's very unlikely that Feint affects Steal, Mug or Despoil in any way. This is probably just eyeballing-error combined with confirmation bias.

[FenrirCandlejack]

It's been said: We must TP in TH gear in order to build TH at a steady rate. While dagger delay plays no role in how fast the rate goes, the amount of TH you have on is what affects it the most. However, that being said, unless SE does something (even a new offhand dagger that has TH+1 and better stats than TK on it), then I openly REFUSE to offhand TK. I will dual wield Thokchas, mainly for better stats and damage overall. I plan on buckling down after building Masa to make a Twashtar, but even after Twashtar is made, I will STILL refuse to use TK. TH+1 is not better than outputting a better amount of damage, and more of it.

[Delvish]

Just putting it out there, main-hand only beestinger is the best way to proc TH. I was tinkering around with it for fun off-handing a shield and found my TH gain rates immensely improved. Of course, any non-DW dagger would yield similar results. Naturally anything along these lines is a HUGE hit to your personal DPS but in the unlikely event you are present JUST for TH and nothing else... this is the way.

[Arcon]

Just putting it out there, main-hand only beestinger is the best way to proc TH.

With a Beestinger you get up to 30% more melee hits in the same time frame as with a Thief's Knife (assuming no downtime and no JA use), but are one TH tier behind. While exact TH upgrade rates have not been found yet, we know that the probability of an upgrade decreases with the TH difference between your current setup and the TH level that's on the mob already. For single wielding a Beestinger to be a better choice than single wielding a Thief's Knife (in terms of upgrade rates) the probability decline between TH tiers can be calculated by looking at a geometric distribution model.

The expected time to get an upgrade can be calculated by (1/p_x)*delay, where x is the TH difference and delay the weapon's delay. To determine whether Beestinger is better than Thief's Knife for any given x, we need to calculate
(1/p_(x+1))*150 < (1/p_x)*194,
which can be transformed to
p_(x+1) > 0.77*p_x (roughly).

If that inequality is true, using a Beestinger is better, otherwise Thief's Knife wins. So if upgrade rate for zero TH difference is 1% (that's a decent estimate based on current data) and upgrade rate for the one TH difference is 0.75%, Thief's Knife would already be better. I don't know how big it actually is, that would require some seriously boring testing, but personally I don't think Beestinger would come out on top. Judging by how hard it is to upgrade further than TH12 the TH difference progression must be significantly lower than just 75% of the previous value, otherwise TH12 would only have a TH upgrade chance of 24% of TH7, which is a lot higher than is commonly observed. I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually 5%.

That's assuming that it follows a certain progression, which I'm not certain of, but I hope to be the case. Otherwise the question would have to be answered for all cases individually and couldn't be determined for all TH difference values.

[Kincard]

If low delay daggers end up beating TK, no reason to use beestinger when you can use some other 150-delay dagger like Puginculus, Rapidus Sax or Oneiros Knife.

I doubt they would given that the upgrade rate seems to decrease exponentially with the increasing levels, so getting your base TH level as high as possible is far more valuable.

[Arcon]

If low delay daggers end up beating TK, no reason to use beestinger when you can use some other 150-delay dagger like Puginculus, Rapidus Sax or Oneiros Knife.

I think he meant using a Beestinger to avoid dealing too much damage, for cases where you want the highest possible TH without killing the mob too fast. Otherwise you'd be correct, though.

I doubt they would given that the upgrade rate seems to decrease exponentially with the increasing levels, so getting your base TH level as high as possible is far more valuable.

I assumed exponential decrease, namely by p*(d^x) where x is the TH difference, p the original upgrade chance (at x=0) and d the amount by which it decreases with level. Above I gave an example for p=0.01 (1%) and d=0.75 (75% decrease with each level). d is calculated by p_(x+1)/p_x, and if that value is > 0.77 then Beestinger (or 150 delay in general) will be better, if it's < 0.77 then Thief's Knife will win. I just don't think the first case is very likely. I wouldn't be surprised if it was 50%.