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  1. #51
    Player Tsukino_Kaji's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    4,029
    Character
    Tsukinokaji
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Fupafighter View Post
    5 would be perfect. 3 is just dumb and limits alot of peoples decisions on what to merit. I don't want to favor 3 jobs that already have everything, then all my other jobs feel shitty and pointless to play.
    In all honesty Fuppy, I didn't even need one of them. The only WS job I realy ever play is nin and I already had lolnnagi. So it left me with an excruciating choise of what I wanted to dump 100 merits into so I could never use it. SJS/Req/Star btw.
    I still see no point to the limitation though.
    (4)

  2. #52
    Player
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    Aug 2011
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    1,749
    Going from a cap of 15 to a cap of 25 be a huge improvement while still keeping the Development Bros vision of whatever they have a vision of. Some say they envision customization, but I still suspect their vision involves a huge spider living in a small apartment. He battles chronic depression and an overwhelming urge to drink the liquified innards of the downstairs neighbors.

    Each night, he has a nightmare about his ex-girlfriend becoming pregnant and eating his head. Anyway...weaponskills...merits...yeah...

    A total of five capped weaponskills would would allow somebody with a ton of a ton of jobs and a smattering of Empyrean and Relic Weapons to merit more-or-less all of the "best in class" weaponskills. This person could cap Last Stand, Ruinator, Resolution, Tachi: Shoha and one other thing according to whichever Relic or Empyrean weaponskill of his or hers sucked the most.

    Someone with more than three jobs and no such weapons or only Relic Weapons would benefit even more from this change, for obvious reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alhanelem View Post
    You act as if this WS like triples your total damage output over time or something. as per above, few if any of these WS are so vital to a job that they're "unplayable" without it.
    While none of the merit weaponskills are that epic compared to others, 10-25% better is still better and every improvement in Final Fantasy XI since the dawn of dawns dawning has been a small increment.

    Having Ruinator on Beastmaster, Last Stand on Corsair, or Resolution on Dark Knight; for example, is huge difference in performance compared to the effect of merits in skill levels or HP or other "across all jobs" merits. A huge difference compared to a lot of other stuff, too.

    The jobs aren't useless without them, but someone who wanted to perform well would definitely notice a big difference.
    (11)

  3. #53
    Player
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    Mar 2011
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    Windurst, Valefor
    Posts
    110
    All this talk about choice and being forced to choose... Sweet Jeebus people... There is one thing that's being overlooked. (And really, if it was stated then I apologize but Imma say it anyway)

    Ya know what kids? Even if we had the ability to cap out each and every merit-able weapon skill it still wouldn't mean that we would do it. That is what having a choice is, if we really wanna be nit picky. Much like now and before (when the lvl cap was 75) people had the choice to lvl each and every job to cap.

    Did they?
    Certainly, some did and many other players didn't. So what's the big deal?

    I say give us the option to merit the weapon skills. Some people will do it, some people won't. It won't break the game anyway seeing as the player has to be both a certain physical level as well as a skill level.

    More importantly- only those players who would want to merit all of them will do it and those who want to specialize in one or two jobs will still have only those one or two jobs. Meaning that those who want to be the best that they can be in terms of their chosen job class will continue to be that. Having this limit removed won't effect them.
    (5)
    Last edited by Anapingofness; 05-06-2012 at 12:10 PM.

  4. #54
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Bastok
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    5,316
    Ya know what kids? Even if we had the ability to cap out each and every merit-able weapon skill it still wouldn't mean that we would do it.
    Who wouldn't do it, other than those who haven't bothered to level a particular job yet? Even in a bad abyssea party, it doesn't take that long to max a WS.

    Much like now and before (when the lvl cap was 75) people had the choice to lvl each and every job to cap.
    When the level cap was 75, it was easy and reasonable to pick a few jobs- it took a long time to cap one job and not everyone enjoys the grinding part of the game. Now it can be pretty easily done in less than a week even without leeching or playing all day long, so people who stick to a few jobs are looked at as gimping themselves. This is a significant part of why I'm against completely lifting the merit limits (I accept that the WS category limit is too low, however).
    (2)

    Someone care to tell me what's wrong with a couple Yukes?
    Check out http://ffxi.gamerescape.com- the new home of FFXIcleopedia and its founders!

  5. #55
    Player Krashport's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    588
    Character
    Krash
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Group 1 Merits.
    Berserk Recast 25/25
    Defender Recast 25/25
    Warcry Recast 25/25
    Aggressor Recast 25/25
    Double Attack Rate 25/25

    Group 2 Merits.
    Warrior's Charge 25/25
    Tomahawk 25/25
    Savagery 25/25
    Aggressive Aim 25/25

    Weapon skill Group Merits.
    Upheaval 25/25

    Blah let them lift every merit ability, every dang merit group in the game. Why start/stop at just weapon skill groups. I want to be able to fully cap all my jobs, In every merit category. Lets not just stop at 5/5, Lets up it to 25/25... /sarcasm!
    (3)

  6. #56
    Player Arcon's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    San d'Oria
    Posts
    2,753
    Character
    Arcon
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Krashport View Post
    /sarcasm!
    No sarcasm necessary. Well, the 25 is clearly overpowered, especially when it comes to recast times, but why not let us merit everything fully? Would it be overpowered if Warriors could get a TP bonus on Warcry and use Tomahawks as well as Warrior's Charge? I already said specialization isn't needed. It should never be needed. Yet they go and make merit abilities procs for Voidwatch. So I have to give up playing how I want to if I wanna be effective in Voidwatch? Specialization is completely unneeded in this game and goes against what many people consider one of the game's strongest points, namely the flexible job system, allowing everyone to experience everything they want without having to start over. Merits restrictions completely defy that. Just lift all the combination limits on merit points and let everyone be happy.
    (7)
    All affirmations are true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true and false and meaningless in some sense.
    ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
    FFXI: Leviathan > Arcon
    FFXIV: Selbina > Arcon Villiers

  7. #57
    Player
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    Mar 2011
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    Windurst, Valefor
    Posts
    110
    Quote Originally Posted by Alhanelem View Post
    Who wouldn't do it, other than those who haven't bothered to level a particular job yet?
    .
    Exactly my point.

    Why haven't they bothered to level a particular job?
    Because they don't want to, for the most part. A lot of people don't like certain jobs and will never level them.

    Having a few jobs is seen as gimping themselves?
    Since when?

    Most people specialize. Even though the grind to lvl cap has been greatly shortened actually playing the chosen job well, ungimping skill levels, and outfitting a job still takes a lot of time.
    For example:
    If you like playing a healer then you will continue to play as a healer. You may decide to mess around with a melee job but in the end, the people who know you (ls mates, friends, etc) will know which job is your best job.

    Think of it this way. Remember the unlockable lvl 70ish trial weapon skills (Asuran Fists, Evisceration, etc)?
    Having all of the merited weapon skills unlocked is much like those weapon skills. Some of them are pretty good, others not so great and for certain jobs it didn't matter anyway. (Did it really matter if a BRD had Evisceration? A WHM having Black Halo?)

    Fact is, you could only use one at a time. Even if you were a WAR you could still only use one at a time because they are weapon bound- which means that you have to change weapons in order to use them. In some cases they are job bound so it still limits which jobs can use them. A puppetmaster can't use Asuran Fists w/o subbing mnk. A Black Mage doesn't have the ability to use Black Halo even if it can get up to the appropriate skill level.

    Nobody ever said you can only have x5 trial weapon skills.

    More importantly we have the option of doing every, single Relic Weapon and obtaining the Relic Weapon Skills, the Mythic Weapons and their Weapon Skills, and lastly the Empyrean weapons and their Weapon Skills. The Empyrean WS's are supposed to be better, in theory anyway.

    So basically, I'm allowed to get all of those without a having a cap placed on them but not merited weapon skills? Come on, that's just plain stupid.

    So what if a few weapon skills cross over between jobs? They are still limited by which jobs can use them.

    Having the ability to obtain these weapon skills isn't game breaking. It doesn't even upset the balance of the game in the least bit. That's why I think they should just lift the cap and let people have the option to cap out as many as they want.
    (7)

  8. #58
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Bastok
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    Having a few jobs is seen as gimping themselves?
    Since when?
    anytime anyone posts about problems with a particular job, or not being able to get a group for certain content on certain jobs, the immediate response from most people is "get off your arse and level a job that's useful for that content." This basically means "you're gimp, now go ungimp yourself then come back."

    Granted- not EVERYBODY acts like this. but it's a problem.

    Having the ability to obtain these weapon skills isn't game breaking. It doesn't even upset the balance of the game in the least bit.
    The people testifying how awsome some of these weaponskills are leads me to believe otherwise. If what they say is to be believed, you GOTTA HAVE EM or you can't play that job. That tells me that they do upset the balance. (Do I want them to be nerfed or even necessarily agree with the above? No. But if they are that good, then they do have an impact on balance, you can't just say that they don't)

    Blah. I've already supported the thread with the specific changes in mind. I don't and won't support maxing of all of them, but an increase in the limit from 15 to 25 points would allow more freedom to choose while still having the choice be there.
    (1)

    Someone care to tell me what's wrong with a couple Yukes?
    Check out http://ffxi.gamerescape.com- the new home of FFXIcleopedia and its founders!

  9. #59
    Player
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    462
    Oy, if this game were truely about specialization then we'd start getting ability tree's and WoW like point allocations to limit how each job can function and further enhance various traits.

    Being as we dont, cat 2 merit ja's or traits are hardly game breaking enough for that argument to prevail, aura steal, sange, blade bash ect. all too under powered or with too long of recast timers to matter leaving you with only a few real choices be it cat 1 or 2, that is if you want to perform optimally. this game is not meant to be about specialization. if it were we'd further be limited on how many jobs one character could level, SPECIALIZATION the new balance word =.=

    To try and make merited ws's about specialization is about as silly as the sange update or any of the things the Dev team seem to find more worthy of their attention then actual pertinant matters.
    (6)
    Last edited by Nala; 05-07-2012 at 09:16 AM.

  10. #60
    Player Teraniku's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    514
    Character
    Teraniku
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    hmm okay. just muddled through this topic and I have to say, with merits as easy to get as gil now a days, after SE ups it to 5 fully meritable WS, Someone will ask for 7 or 8. Why not ? it's only a little more than half? It's not game breaking.

    I'd like to see a survey on the people who have ALL weaponskills capped. This is just like the WSNM abilities except for the fact you can get all of the WSNM, provided your skill in each weapon is high enough. So being able to merit all of them isn't game breaking and as long as someone puts the time into it, I don't see why not.
    (3)

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