Increase the number of meritable WS

[Arcon]

I'm disagreeing because I genuinely feel that this doesn't need to be changed and that people are just whining about something having a limit or restriction on it.

Restrictions suck.

But rather than an increase in the maximum amount you can merit up to 5/5 - which is obviously the want here - I'd prefer to see these WS being usable naturally, with merits allowing a further increase in their potential.

While this could work if it was adjusted, having the WS naturally as they are now will not do. Unless they're merited fully they're all very weak, even just having 4/5 merits means most of them aren't worth using over other readily available WS (20% off the WSC at ~150 means 25 less base damage). Which means, in terms of efficiency, having a WS merited 4/5 equates to about not having it at all for many of the WS.

[Camiie]

Yes, because I said so. [sarcasm]

No, because SE said so. Why do you think there are limits on the categories in the first place? BECAUSE THEY WANT YOU TO SPECIALIZE, AND NOT BE ABLE TO HAVE THE BEST EVERYTHING. Outside of equipment, merit points are pretty much the only thing that makes one character distinct at all from another.

We're not children. Because Papa Tanaka said so isn't a good enough reason. WHY do they want us to specialize, and don't we already do that by changing jobs? We're already limited as to what Weapon Skills we have access to because of job exclusivity and skill levels. If I could fully merit all the Weapon Skills it's not going to turn my MNK into anything that it's not already. Even WAR can't use them all and even if they could, a WAR won't use them all effectively.

I just fail to see how anything becomes OP or unbalanced here whether I can fully unlock 5 10 or 14 of them. If I'm not supposed to be able to fully unlock all the merit WS then why can I unlock all the WSNM and Mythic ones? Why is this different simply because the WS are locked behind merits rather than a quest?

[Alhanelem]

The majority of players that I've read the posts of don't seem to want to specialize. They don't want to make decisions about where to take their characters. They don't want to choose between ability A and ability B. They want it all. And that's the recurring word of the moment: want. It's not about needing to have more choice to cater or enhance the game, they just want it.

People might want things but that doesn't always mean they should have them.

Restrictions suck.

Yeah. I know! Like how they force me to drive on the right side of the road. Why can't i drive on the left? That would be far more fun!

[Neisan_Quetz]

That was so stupid, I don't know what to say.

[Alhanelem]

That was so stupid, I don't know what to say.

If lame analogies are the only way i can get through, then that's what I have to do. Restrictions usually exist for a reason. We may not like the restriction, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't exist.

[Neisan_Quetz]

It wasn't a lame analogy, it was a incredibly stupid one. The only thing I got is you have no real argument for keeping them at 15 merits maximum other than 'because SE said so'.

[Elexia]

We're not children.

People sure act like it when someone disagrees with something :|

[Camiie]

People sure act like it when someone disagrees with something :|

I think it's the other way around this time. I at least tried to offer some sort of reasoning beyond "me like" or "me not like." There wasn't so much of that from the disagree side.

I don't understand the thinking behind merits being about specialization when the rest of the game seems to be the opposite of that. FFXI offers a freedom through the job system that no other game does except for XIV as far as I know, and it's one of the biggest selling points. Why then are some people so adamant that that freedom be quashed when it comes to merits? People rail that the game has become too fast and too easy, and yet this would at least add a bit of time to most people's leveling/meriting experience. I really can't see the downside here. I'm waiting for someone to show it to me.

The only things I've heard are someone saying they don't like the idea, saying that this is how SE intended things to be, if everyone max everything there'd be nothing to differentiate one person from another, and the slippery slope argument. I'm certainly no genius debater, but I can't find sound reasoning here.

If someone doesn't like it they don't have to merit what they don't want to. There's certainly no reason to merit a WS for a job you don't possess. I only level and merit what I want to. If someone does want to level every job and merit the WS for each then I see nothing wrong with giving them that freedom. It's not going to turn them into some game-breaking immortal god of destruction.

As far as SE's intentions, well I'd like to tell them where they can shove their intentions, but I'll be fair and say that an MMO is a special kind of game. It changes and evolves over time based on player feedback. In my opinion, a good MMO is one where the devs are willing to compromise with the players for the sake of fun. This is one of those times I feel some compromise is in order. AT LEAST meet us in the middle, or unlock 1 or 2 more now and then more over time.

And the slippery slope? There's a reason that's listed under fallacies.

Look the core of the game is about having the freedom to play the game to its fullest on a single character. Yes there are limits, and for many of them, understandably so. This is not one of those understandable limits. In a game where we can fully level every single job to cap on a single character we suddenly hit this arbitrary wall that doesn't mesh with anything that came before? Why? I don't get it. I don't know why people are so fond of the idea. I certainly hope those same people wouldn't turn me away because of the very same limits they wish to impose on me.

[Alhanelem]

It wasn't a lame analogy, it was a incredibly stupid one. The only thing I got is you have no real argument for keeping them at 15 merits maximum other than 'because SE said so'.

That's not really what I'm saying, but even if we look at it the way you are, what's wrong with that reason? It's their game, they made it, they chose how the systems worked.

Lots of people have most if not every job now. Gear and merits are the last things that distinguish one player from another beyond "skill" (as if this game requires it). The Job specific merits and the weaponskill merits are basically the ones that indicate which jobs you prefer to play most. I don't think that should change.

I wouldn't fight 5-10 more points to spend, as that wouldn't take this away. I would and will fight being able to max out all/most of them because it would negatively impact the system.

I don't understand the thinking behind merits being about specialization when the rest of the game seems to be the opposite of that

But this sentence says you DO understand it. The "rest of the game" doesn't offer much oppertunity to specialize or get personal. Merit points are the primary point of where customization comes into play. Are you suggesting that if we have one customizable feature, we need to have XYZ number of customizable features before we call it "customization?"

And the slippery slope? There's a reason that's listed under fallacies.

What makes the slippery slope a fallacy is that logic can't determine (without additional proveable premises) that a bunch of unknown, unspecified things will lead in a chain to a particular final result. It's not that it would or would not happen, its that the outcome cannot be proven- thus it does not improve an argument by itself.

If you want to ignore all the above, then I'll just make one thing clear: I cannot support a vague topic title with an accompanying first post saying "pretty simple." It needs to specify how many points should be added and the reasoning for it. The OP has done none of these things, and thus cannot convince me that a change is necessary or beneficial.

[Neisan_Quetz]

That's not really what I'm saying, but even if we look at it the way you are, what's wrong with that reason? It's their game, they made it, they chose how the systems worked.

You're talking about the same people who were 'surprised' at how people played SMN saying it was not ther intention for it be used that way.

Lots of people have most if not every job now. Gear and merits are the last things that distinguish one player from another beyond "skill" (as if this game requires it). The Job specific merits and the weaponskill merits are basically the ones that indicate which jobs you prefer to play most. I don't think that should change.

If they had left the weaponskills the way they were at first testing I would agree... but 3 is far too limiting no matter how you try to cut it considering how useful some of these weaponskills are.

I wouldn't fight 5-10 more points to spend, as that wouldn't take this away. I would and will fight being able to max out all/most of them because it would negatively impact the system.

Agreed, that's what I'm asking for. The OP actually stated such in another thread, so I'm guessing they were just lazy.