Attacking Monsters with an Avatar While Being AFK.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Give up Raist, they've all lost it.

[Babekeke]

the activity was locking people out---not because they were afk, but because they had siezed control of all the camps.

If you can't out-claim someone who's AFK, you need to find a new game to play.

[Llana_Virren]

In a general response, let me put it this way:

1. SE's definition of "AFK gameplay" as I understand it, is when non-active player(s) is/are performing an action(s) automatically (without direct input by a player), which result in obtaining some sort of reward, to include EXP, skill, or items.

By this meaning, if you are in a party and you go AFK, you are performing no action, therefore, you are not participating in AFK gameplay.

Now, the idea that "being AFK and earning EXP is cheating" is scary because if you have to WC and your party decides to pull another mob anyway, you have now become a cheater!

So, the first problem with this interpretation is "what measuring standard can you apply to determine what constitutes being AFK versus cheating?"

2. When a single player is AFK, the player is incapable of performing an action. This should apply to all jobs equally, however in the case of SMNs, the pet is capable of engaging a target on its own. Because a pet is not a player, the SMN is now able to earn EXP, Cruor and/or items "automatically" without actually participating in the game. This is not the case in a leech party, where at least one member of the party has to take action.

Of course, if it's OK for SMN's to "auto-kill", what happens when you have an alliance of SMN's leeching while AFK? Is this likely... probably not. But it does throw a wrench in the argument for both sides.

Ultimately, because FFXI is an MMO, there will always be competition for everything. This isn't FFI~X-2, FFXIII, or FFXIII-2, where you can run around and kill everything you see at will. Or, as a best example, FFXII, where you can auto-leech in the crypt using the "rules."

FFXI will be a player-versus-player battle for gear and NMs, and it should be. The problem here isn't that SMNs can auto-attack while AFK; the issue is that "key monsters" (which includes normal monsters needed for quests) are being claimed by AFK players, which is disrupting play for "active" players.

This is not an issue in leech parties, as they typically camp in undesired camps and fight overlooked mobs; there is no disruption.

Once there is a disruption, however, SE will look into it, just as they are now with SMN.

Moral of the story: stay under the radar.

[Kristal]

Give up Raist, they've all lost it.

Or do we?
Can you put forth arguments in defense of "afk SMN farming of chigoes" that can stand on their own?
All I've seen so far is diversionary tactics attempting to shift focus to other (non-)issues.

[Sarick]

PPL were doing it to farm wind geodes and Garudites while AFK, due to the frequent wind weather in the zone and ease of killing chigoes.

The GM's don't care about this either way, no one reports these guys it's not a big deal. There're people farming these zones with 3rd party automated tools already while totally AFK. What makes this horrible is they take action on in game features but, if players are abusing away farming by other means it's totally ignored.

What is SE jailing these people for when they created the design issue in the first place? It's totally backward thinking on their part. They're punishing players for features that've been in the game since snm was introduced yet, they sit back and ignore everything else. This is just ironic.

[Llana_Virren]

It's totally backward thinking on their part. They're punishing players for features that have been in the game.....

There are a lot of things that have been "in the game" as a feature, or intentional design, and those designs have been manipulated.

The key word for everyone arguing about the "irony" is disruption. The SMN auto-attack feature was disrupting gameplay for others. SE is not punishing anyone for using job features as they were designed, but rather for intentionally disrupting gameplay for others by claiming key monsters while AFK.

I swear, some of you guys argue about this stuff and suggest that you've been playing FFXI your entire life, yet you're totally ignorant to the actual issues at hand, and you want to blame "big bad SE" for not letting you do whatever you want. Of course, if you can't be happy, then "damn those cheaters!" who found a way to get what they want without disrupting gameplay for others....

[Yinnyth]

The GM's don't care about this either way, no one reports these guys it's not a big deal. There're people farming these zones with 3rd party automated tools already while totally AFK. What makes this horrible is they take action on in game features but, if players are abusing away farming by other means it's totally ignored.

They take action against the real bots as well as the smn bots. It's just that because pets auto-attack stuff, and because this has become widespread, merely TAKING action is no longer enough. They need to take action and say "Hey guys, I know it's using ingame features, but absentee play still isn't ok by our rules. So knock it off and tell us if you see someone doing this." It should go without saying that real bots are bad too. Would you feel better if they made a post saying "Oh, by the way... botting? Still bad. We'll still ban you for that."

It's totally backward thinking on their part. They're punishing players for features that've been in the game since snm was introduced yet

Your car (I'm assuming you have one, if I'm wrong, please just pretend along with me) could probably go 100 mph through a school zone. It's a design feature. Doesn't mean it's legal or a good idea. Kitchen cookware could be used to remove various pieces of your neighbor's body. Again, design feature but illegal and bad idea. Using nothing but ingame features, I could trick various NMs in various zones into attacking and killing hapless newbs. Against the rules, and for good reason.

If they made SMN botting impossible without using an actual bot, they'd have to prevent SMN pets from auto-defending their master. Again, BAD IDEA.

[Llana_Virren]

Your car (I'm assuming you have one, if I'm wrong, please just pretend along with me) could probably go 100 mph through a school zone. It's a design feature. Doesn't mean it's legal or a good idea.

Woah, hold on now... how else are we supposed to skill up Tarutaru evasion?

[Sarick]

Your car (I'm assuming you have one, if I'm wrong, please just pretend along with me) could probably go 100 mph through a school zone. It's a design feature. Doesn't mean it's legal or a good idea. Kitchen cookware could be used to remove various pieces of your neighbor's body. Again, design feature but illegal and bad idea. Using nothing but ingame features, I could trick various NMs in various zones into attacking and killing hapless newbs. Against the rules, and for good reason.

With the car feature you make a choice to push the peddle to the floor to exceed the speed limit. Pressing the gas peddle is a conscious choice. With the summoner you just call the pet go AFK and "THE GAME" pet decides to defend you. The game automates the attacks because the game has the pet auto attack. It's more like using cruse control on the highway. You push one button (summon pet) then sit back and let the car (pet) manage the gas peddle (aggro).

Also, pulling NM to MPK people is intent on greefing others. If you're trying to escape a NM and accidentally happen to accidentally die running etc. it's not the same.

I don't agree that they should be allowed to do this. I do think it's stupid that they ban people for this when there are other bigger issues they DO ignore. Seriously, If it's broken then SE should fix it.

[Llana_Virren]

With the car feature ... pressing the gas peddle is a conscious choice. With the summoner you just ... go AFK. The game automates the attacks because the game has the pet auto attack. It's more like using cruse control on the highway ... you push one button

So you're still missing the point. Summoning your avatar and then going AFK is a chosen act.
Pressing on the gas is a chosen act.
Pressing a button is a chosen act.

If you can't see that using "summon avatar" and going AFK doesn't fit in the same category as somone who uses an infinite-loop macro by pressing "one button" ... then this whole issue is lost on you.

Frankly, I could care less. The issue is not that the avatar is auto-attacking . The issue is that the SMN is deliberately putting himself in a position where abusing that feature allows him to auto-claim monsters without actively playing the game.

There is a difference between using a feature, and abusing it. These Summoners were abusing it, which brought forth the undesirable wrath of SE.

Again, you're using the argument that "the game allows it, so it should be ok" but the game also allows players to leech EXP, which was something Duzell pointed out earlier.

The difference is that the prior interfered with other players while the latter does not.