Leeching in video games. Good or bad?

[Feynman]

How it is helping ffxi?

Hi Rosina,

I think the argument goes like this, for many people getting exp is simply a waste of time. They don't want to level, they just want to be high level so they can do the end game content. For these people leeching lets them skip the part of the game they hate and get right into what it is they want to do. Does this help the game as a whole? Probably not. But it does seem to enhance the enjoyment that they get out of the game; a very good thing for them.

I certainly understand your frustration with leeching as you are referring to it. Not the people opening chests, holding KIs etc because, as you say, these people are contributing something to the group. Though people in-game do refer to this as leeching I don't think you meant to argue semantics on this post especially since you specifically said these aren't the people you are talking about.

But as far as what multiple people being allowed to stay in group and afk for several hours on end is adding to the game, I'm not really sure I have an answer other than the end result of those people being glad they didn't have to level themselves. And let's all be realistic, people being able to stay in party with no contribution because the leaders aren't paying attention, they know the party leader, or for some other reason does happen.

[Rohelius]

Ive never been in a party were people arent leeching or trying to leech and get called out on it.

With that said. In this other game i play if you leech and enough people in your party or alliance decide to report you they type "/report Payer name" then a box apears and you can choose many things to report like Botting, leeching, RMT etc~

For most things you get banned but for leeching you get a 15min status effect called "Dishonorable" which prevents you from joining any group for any reason.

I wish they had this system here, i really do.

[Feynman]

In this other game i play if you leech and enough people in your party or alliance decide to report you they type "/report Payer name" then a box apears and you can choose many things to report like Botting, leeching, RMT etc~

For most things you get banned but for leeching you get a 15min status effect called "Dishonorable" which prevents you from joining any group for any reason.

I wish they had this system here, i really do.

Interesting. Is this vetted in any way? I mean can someone just decide they want to be hateful and make you "Dishonorable" for no real reason?

[Zerich]

Lol, a WAR called me a leech last night because he didn't have the sense to use temps, while i was proccing on WHM/SCH for Voidwatch.

I let him stay bound and k.o.'d for a few fights.

[Rohelius]

If only one person reports you nothing happens.

People get mad and im sure they report each other in the process but it has to be a group report for it to take effect.

If your group as a whole reports you then you have no busyness in that group and you should leave anyways.

[Yinnyth]

As most know I dislike leeching. Now this is the art of leeching, I do not hate the players who leech. I find that it is rude to leech because your not contributing in earning the exp, or items you obtain. Your lack of effort makes other work harder then they might want to on a video game they use for relaxation.

As far as exp goes, filling an empty spot with dead-weight has a negligible effect on exp productivity unless you have helpful people who would like to join, but can't because you're full. In aby, exp is exp regardless of your numbers. In GoV, the exp from completing a regime greatly outweighs the exp per kill. If you have dead-weight clogging up your last ally space and someone helpful wants to join, the choice should be obvious. If not, then you enter into an quandry over where you draw line on "useful enough". Is a level 30 blm spamming bio on other peoples mobs really doing anything to help, or is he also a leech even though he's not afk?

Leeching is a matter of magnitude. Our interactions with one another are give and take. I leech from my friends, and I let them leech from me. Is our ratio a perfect 50/50? Well, even if it were a perfect 50/50, it would be impossible to prove with any metrics known to man. You want proof leeching is good for FFXI? I'll use an example of me leeching. I joined a complete stranger in Boyahda Tree because we were both after the same trial targets. We spent about an hour or two waiting for weather, doing some GoV to help level his dualbox char. At that point, I was out of time and had to go to work, but he let me stay in party and finished my trial for me as soon as weather popped. He leeched exp from me, and in exchange, I was allowed to leech trial kills, thus allowing us to build a relationship of trust with one another.

[Rosina]

if you hate leveling why play rpg?

leeching never was a blanket term so pardon me on that part.

And trust me i seen people encourage afk leeching. Not keywhoring or paying off ppl. A bit of an fyi about my gear... it actually wasn't crap. My eva was pretty high cuz of that gear/ sub choice so I barely got hit. I seen ninja with +2 full set get hit more then I did. I am not big on endgame so i really don't care about gear swapping. And ya it can be a waste of space for a 10% difference. I am a big rpg players and gears is pretty much the same on anyone of them Just a means of defence with small added bonuses to give you a SLIGHT edge.

but as I stated have to do with leeching. Also word of caution, you can't really gear swap in ffxiv... Just so you know u get a debuff a "itchy" status when you do.

Just cuz i don't do that magic 10% don't mean i'm a crap player. Least i play the game. Can tell most here have not played this game long. G/Sing was never heavely enforced nor should be.

[Yinnyth]

Lol, a WAR called me a leech last night because he didn't have the sense to use temps, while i was proccing on WHM/SCH for Voidwatch.

I let him stay bound and k.o.'d for a few fights.

A vengeful member can be much worse than a leech. IRL, you don't prank your fellow soldiers while you're under heavy fire no matter what offensive thing they've said to you. Doing so puts everyone at a greater risk, not just the guy you hate.

Same thing goes for ingame. You might not like him, but that doesn't mean he doesn't serve a purpose for you and everyone else there. Refusing to help him is refusing to help your group. Refusing to help your group makes you a leech. Being a leech makes his claim true.

Granted, I wasn't there to see the specifics, but "He said something mean" is never a good reason to not help him when you're both part of a larger group working towards a goal.

[Arcon]

if you hate leveling why play rpg?

Because EXP isn't the only way to develop a character. Many here would agree that the experience gained from harder enemies and group fights as well as the items obtained from that develop your character more than just fighting trash mobs for hours on end. Or why do you think FFXI's content consists of 5% EXP and 95% stuff that happens afterwards?

And trust me i seen people encourage afk leeching. Not keywhoring or paying off ppl.

Who? Where? I cannot believe that, because it is absolutely retarded.

And ya it can be a waste of space for a 10% difference. I am a big rpg players and gears is pretty much the same on anyone of them Just a means of defence with small added bonuses to give you a SLIGHT edge.

My current DD gear on WAR puts me at 25% Haste, 34% Double Attack, 15% Critical Hit Rate and 18% Critical Hit Damage, along with many other features like Accuracy, Attack and Store TP, which greatly enhance your physical capabilities further. Assuming a WHM is hasting me, that puts me at 50% Haste with Hasso. Which brings my damage output to:

D*(66% + 2*34%)*(85%+15%*160%*118%)/(1-50%) = D*3.037

Without that gear it would be:

D*(83% + 2*17%)*(90%+10%*160%*108%)/(1-25%) = D*1.674

Meaning my gear alone makes me twice as good, in this situation. A lot better still, the higher my total Haste gets, like in zerging situations with a BRD, COR or SCH. That's disregarding the fact that, thanks to my gear, I have one hit less to my next WS and disregarding all the boosts to accuracy and attack, which make me hit more frequently and miscallaneous boosts like extending duration of Warcry or increase damage of Retaliation attacks by 20% further, and of course boosts my WS damage alone by over 50%. Also, my gear is still far from perfect. You'd notice the difference even more on dual wielding jobs, since Dual Wield is applied in the same way as Haste, meaning it gets better the more you have of it. My THF gets a far bigger boost from gear than my WAR. Realistically speaking the damage increase is in the triple to quadruple range.

Also, it kinda irks me that you refer to gear as "a means of defence". Very little gear has actually any valuable defensive capabilities, namely the gear with "damage taken" or "magic defense bonus" on it. The DEF-rating on gear is almost negligible.

G/Sing was never heavely enforced nor should be.

Of course not, how could it be "enforced"? There is no gear police running around. But it is encouraged and it always was. That's why SE gave us the ability to change gear from within macros in the first place. And they still encourage us to do it, or how would you explain gear that shortens Aquaveil casting time? Do you mean to tell me that SE intended that as a fulltiming piece?

[Anapingofness]

Figure its time for a friendly debate about this, since "Leeching" is working its way into end game.
All i ask is keep your opinions clean of insults.

As most know I dislike leeching. Now this is the art of leeching, I do not hate the players who leech. I find that it is rude to leech because your not contributing in earning the exp, or items you obtain. Your lack of effort makes other work harder then they might want to on a video game they use for relaxation. In the early days of ffxi you got kicked, insulted, had insulting shouts made about you for leeching. Heck go away for 5 min longer then stated you would get people insulting you left and right.

In my personal experience, both past and present, leeching is bad. I seen alliences go from insane exp rates to trickling exp because 30-50% of the party stop fighting/contributing. It does suck joining an aby pt and due to leeching mages.. get no TE. What i'm looking for is proof of leeching being good? How it is helping ffxi?

Leeching is frustrating, no doubt about that... but I think the only way leeching would work is if it was mutually beneficial. The only instance where I've seen leeching work effectively is something like the lowbie instances in Forsaken World where the leech and the people he's leeching from get something.

As far as FFXI is concerned well, I think people still get shit for leeching. Tbh, in any game where both parties don't benefit leeching becomes a problem and the leech will get crap for it.

As far as my personal exp goes... well, I'm happy to say that I haven't seen leeching happen lately. ^^