[dev1097] Newly Added Control Config.

[Alhanelem]

I would love to see a survey. I have serious doubts about any significant number of players using keyboard / mouse only.

I don't need a survey to tell you that a majority players not on a console use the keyboard. And part of it doesn't even have anything to do with the merits of one or the other but to do with the simple fact that essentially every PC has a mouse and keyboard. A gamepad is an accessory, to be purchased if you so desire- It is not necessary or required, therefore people will only get a gamepad for a PC if they really want one.

PC gamers almost always use the mouse and keyboard. Gamepads and other more specialized devices are typically used when you want to go for the "couch experience" (though I personally have no problem using a keyboard on the couch- get a nice wireless one for this)

One of the games I still play regularly on my Wii is Monster Hunter 3. This is an online action-RPGish type game with some MMOish features. Because it actually has unrestricted chat I plug a USB keyboard into my Wii for chat- So believe me when I tell you I have experience with trying to play a game with chat with a controller and also trying to type on the keyboard- You just can't do it in a heated situation. You either need your controls to be on the keyboard or you get your arse handed to you while you type.

Is it hard to move and do macros at the same time?

Nope. Thumb on the alt key and use left pinky, fore or index finger to press 1234, right hand for the rest, while middle finger remains on the WAS or D keys (using the "compact" layout, which IMHO is far superior to FFXI's default keyboard controls- but that's just my personal taste, which comes from playing FPS/action games where WASD controls are most common). Just like playing with a controller, its something you get used to. I have a Logitech G15 keyboard with 18 macro keys on the left side, I just tap these for most of my macros instead of haivng to use a key combo- makes PUP maneuvers and pet commands a breeze. There are many other keyboards out there designed for gaming as well. You don't NEED one but the extra keys can be useful, particularly if a game binds necessary controls to unusual positions.

[Lokithor]

The ONLY way to open a soft boiled egg is at the small end. Anyone telling you to open the big end is an IDIOT!!

[Alhanelem]

The ONLY way to open a soft boiled egg is at the small end. Anyone telling you to open the big end is an IDIOT!!

I prefer to open them from the side- side meaning the area perpindicular to the axis running through the center of the big and small ends.

Anyone who doesn't do this is a MORON!

[xbobx]

I never open eggs, I crack them, shell them, never open. maybe because I never found the egg knob yet.

[odericko]

The ONLY way to open a soft boiled egg is at the small end. Anyone telling you to open the big end is an IDIOT!!

Pretty much what this thread comes down to (the last few pages anyway).

[Trumpy]

i never can click on anything correctly using a mouse right now. i can try and click on a player directly in front of me but it never seems to select them half the time. i feel i can control better and faster on a controller than keyboard. its easier to hit left or right on my dpad to target quickly then to think if i need to hold shift while hittin tab and if i overshoot to reverse what im hitting to get to the target. and many more things. macros are within reach (i can move and fiddle with menus or macros at the same time) whereas macros on a keyboard can be a stretch depending on where it is located.

Alhanelem must have some big Galkan hands cause i jsut tested this and i thinki have big hands and its a bit of a stretch to hold alt with thumb and reach my numpad to move. seriosuly tho a controller is comfortable and allows one to easily reach all the games functions without ridiculous stretches. and im sure on most PC games people use keyboard mouse but this game id bet controller use is much higher. for me it is nigh impossible to make the finger stretches to hit the keys combos for macros and move at the same time (especially without looking straight at the keyboard to make sure my fingers are hitting the right ones) compared to the in my hands feel of a controller i can use with instinct without even looking at.

I have tried the logitech controllers and i did really prefer them. but the only logitech controllers i can find these days break in 1-3 months and doubled in price from the first one i bought to play this game. I take good care of my controllers but the wires all started to break at the top of the controller in the same spot and some of the buttons would start messing up. I went thru bout 5 of them before i decided to pay a bit more for a xbox controller that still hasnt broke and is wireless.

funny i posted this checking out the last post and when i hit submit there was like 30 more posts. didnt feel liek it took me 30 mins to type this or anything.

[FrankReynolds]

I don't need a survey to tell you that a majority players not on a console use the keyboard. And part of it doesn't even have anything to do with the merits of one or the other but to do with the simple fact that essentially every PC has a mouse and keyboard.

You do actually need a survey. This is not every other computer game. It was designed to work with a game pad and in my opinion works better with one. If you don't believe me, go look at the numerous "let's get rid of PS2/3 support" discussions and see how many people want to use a keyboard/mouse. I have friends who are literally professional gamers. Meaning that they actually make a living (albeit relatively meager IMO) off of winning lan parties and competitions etc. and feel absolutely disgusted by the idea of gaming with a clunky piece of crap controller. One of the biggest gripes I hear from them is that this game is so much easier to play with a controller. I'm talking about super geeks like this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ltORkYAdVk

A gamepad is an accessory, to be purchased if you so desire- It is not necessary or required, therefore people will only get a gamepad for a PC if they really want one.

If I had to venture a guess, I would estimate that probably 90% of all the PC players already own(ed) an xbox360 or ps2 or ps3 controller, so that's really not much of an issue. I mean even my mom has a 360 just for watching videos etc. I would hardly consider owning a game pad a FFXI specific purchase.

One of the games I still play regularly on my Wii is Monster Hunter 3. This is an online action-RPGish type game with some MMOish features. Because it actually has unrestricted chat I plug a USB keyboard into my Wii for chat- So believe me when I tell you I have experience with trying to play a game with chat with a controller and also trying to type on the keyboard- You just can't do it in a heated situation. You either need your controls to be on the keyboard or you get your arse handed to you while you type.

Imagine how fun dual-boxing would be with two keyboards on your lap.

[Alhanelem]

You do actually need a survey. This is not every other computer game. It was designed to work with a game pad and in my opinion works better with one.

You're trying to mix together opinions and facts. Just because you think the game plays better with a controller (I don't) doesn't mean "most people on the PC play it with controllers." Also, before this post, you didn't specify FFXI, you made it sound like you were speaking in general terms.

Imagine how fun dual-boxing would be with two keyboards on your lap.

Those who choose to dual box accept the inconveniences involved. The game does not promote nor was designed around the fact that it is possible to do this.

If I had to venture a guess, I would estimate that probably 90% of all the PC players already own(ed) an xbox360 or ps2 or ps3 controller, so that's really not much of an issue.

this "guess" of yours is based on your personal opinions and perceptions of game controllers, and not on any kind of facts or data. You're assuming that all or most PC gamers were console gamers at one point, and that's just not true. Except on certain home computers from the 80s and such (e.g. commodore 64), most comptuers did not come with a game controller but came with a keyboard. The fact that there's a huge market for gaming keyboards and gaming mice should tell you that there are a lot more mouse and keyboard users out there then you seem to want there to be.

I owned a personal computer long before I ever owned a video game console, personally.

[FrankReynolds]

You're trying to mix together opinions and facts.

So are you.

Also, before this post, you didn't specify FFXI, you made it sound like you were speaking in general terms.

Sorry for the confusion. I play games on what makes sense. For Example: If it's a first person shooter that you're playing, you would have to be insane (or just like losing) to want to use a game pad over the mouse / keyboard. In FFXI however, I can literally play for hours at a time without ever needing to type anything, so the the game pad makes a lot more sense to me. It's nice to be able to sit 6 feet from my screen without needing a big clunky keyboard and / or a mouse and a place to set it.

Those who choose to dual box accept the inconveniences involved. The game does not promote nor was designed around the fact that it is possible to do this.

and yet it is a fact of life and the best way to do it (without using bot programs) is to have two controllers.

this "guess" of yours is based on your personal opinions and perceptions of game controllers, and not on any kind of facts or data. You're assuming that all or most PC gamers were console gamers at one point, and that's just not true. Except on certain home computers from the 80s and such (e.g. commodore 64), most comptuers did not come with a game controller but came with a keyboard. The fact that there's a huge market for gaming keyboards and gaming mice should tell you that there are a lot more mouse and keyboard users out there then you seem to want there to be.

Correlation =/= causation. I suspect that in this day and age, most parents have a PC in the house long before they consider buying their children a console. That does not mean that the kids will all be PC only gamers, or even that they will get any gaming experience at all from the PC (every console is capable of playing every game made for that console, while most home PCs are pretty rubbish as far as gaming goes). Console games are a multi-billion dollar industry. A very large portion of the console owning populace are PC owners as well. While most PC gamers have either played consoles in the past or are currently playing console games as well as PC games, a very large portion of console gamers have never even considered playing games on their PC. I mean almost everyone I know has some sort of gaming system either for their kids or their own use, but very few people I know play PC games and bear in mind that I live in the US. Outside of the US, PC gaming is not nearly as popular.

[Alhanelem]

and yet it is a fact of life and the best way to do it (without using bot programs) is to have two controllers.

Dual boxing is not a "fact of life." Many players do not dual box, in large part because most players only have one account. Sure, if you want to dual box, I can agree that using a controller isn't a bad idea- but dual boxing is not a requirement or necessity to play this game. Just because *you* do something, doesn't mean everyone does.

That does not mean that the kids will all be PC only gamers

It also doesn't mean that the people who are PC gamers previously played on a console.

Console games are a multi-billion dollar industry.

Well, if you want to talk about money, it's a multi billiion dollar industry that has been in a declining trend for a while now, as many of today's generation put down both their controllers and keyboards and go mobile.. But that's another subject, really.

I can literally play for hours at a time without ever needing to type anything

Well, maybe you play solo a lot. When you play with a linkshell, in parties, etc., communication is an important part of gameplay, and beyond that, there are people who enjoy the social aspect of the game, playing it specifically to be around other people and chat and have fun. Yes, a keyboard is not the only means of communication, but you can't coutn on everyone in every party your join to have all of the possible alternatives (xbox party chat, ventrilo, mumble, teamspeak, skype, etc)

Perhaps we should agree that we both have our own opinions on these issues, and that while we both like to think that "most people" do things the way we like to do them, it may or may not be the case.

Each kind of input device has its own advantages and disadvantages. In my subjective opinion, for general purposes the pros of a keyboard outweigh the pros of a gamepad for this game. You may not agree, that's fine. But neither of our opinions actually make one or the other "the winner."