PLD tanks Vs. MNK tanks *Ding* FIGHT!

[Horis]

At this point I think people are giving MNK's wayyyy too much credit.

This is so true. I have played with tons of PLD tanks and MNK tanks of varying strengths. In my opinion, PLD is still the better tank overall.
While MNKs can tank and deal good DMG, they take way too much DMG and become a massive MP sponge. Giving /NIN to MNKs still doesn't let you avoid all attacks. High HP and -PDT sets are nice, but MNKs still aren't self sufficient enough for that to matter. Fighting mobs with high attack speed, ACC, DMG, and/or multi-hit, MNKs become a burden on the mages. Some people may argue that MNKs have the Chakra ability, but even with a great VIT build, and Chakra Recast and Invigorate merits, Chakra still is only usable every 4min 10sec and only heals a few hundred HP and up to 400 regen. All that can be taken away in the matter of seconds and as I said, once every 4min 10sec at best. Also people may argue that in abyssea, mages have massive MP pools and tons of refresh. This may be true, but its not even close to infinate, especially when they have to spam heal Cure V/VI.
As for PLD, they can take hits much better then MNKs and keep themselves alive for a long time without spam cures. As such, mages can save their MP for buffs/debuffs/nukes/etc. Sure PLD isn't even in the same league as MNK in terms of DMG output, PLDs can still deal a moderate amount of DMG. Add that to the saved MP and time, otherwise wasted on spam cures for a MNK tank, now able to be used on nukes, it can easily make the fight go just as quick, if not quicker, while going much more smoothly with less risk of failure.
If given the choice, I choose a PLD tank over MNK tank anyday even if the PLD's gear is average and the MNK's is well above average. The only thing that may be an issue is enmity, which even MNK tanks have that problem sometimes. If the PLD actually puts some effort into tanking, he/she can overcome the issue.
It would be nice though if SE adds some new enmity stuff for PLD. One thing that would be nice is if they made the enmity caps for PLD higher then the other jobs. Also, SE should give PLD an ability equivalent to Provoke.
All-in-all, in my opinion, if you have a PLD tank any mob in the game, then did it a second time on the same mob, with the same allies, same day of the week, same weather, etc., but with a MNK instead of PLD, the fight with the PLD tank will be better atleast 95% of the time. Anyway, I do believe completely that PLD is a better tank then MNK, I still think MNK is the second best tank. "What about NIN?" you might ask. Well I absolutely HATE NIN tanks and I would sooner take a DRK/WAR with souleater, last resort, and berserk up 100% of the time to tank a lvl99 HNM with a lvl10 Galka PLD with a 0 healing skill, and -50MND as the only healer, then willingly take a lvl99 NIN with me to fight something even as easy as a Tiny Mandragora.
...Sorry about that, but as you can see, I really hate NIN...
Back on topic, people are saying recently that PLD isn't even worth having anymore, but I strongly disagree. Even though PLD isn't as great as it used to be, in comparison to other jobs, it is still the best tank out there.

[Greatguardian]

A good MNK wouldn't be subbing Ninja anyways so I don't see how the comparison is at all relevant. Mnk/War with RR/GH/Apoc and Af2-enhanced Counterstance is looking at about a 70% counter rate. Taking a minimum 5% evade rate and an acc cap of 95% into account, only 30% of all attacks will even land on a Mnk. That's the equivalent of tanking in -70% PDT, and actually reduces more damage than any shield in the game that isn't Ochain.

With 4k~ HP, any healer with half a brain cell can keep a Mnk alive even if one of those 30% of total hits scrapes through. Spam curing certainly isn't required.

Edit: That said, any healer with half a brain cell can keep a Pld alive too. There really isn't any difference at all except for the fact that Victory Smite does more damage than Chant du Cynge, Monk has better TP phase damage, and significantly more Offensive JAs/Traits.

[Aeonk]

@ Wolfe: I could go with the "pics or didn't happen" card, but I'd rather just make your point moot. If by out tank you mean he pulled hate... no shit. Any/every DD on the list is going to be at the hate cap by the end of the fight. If they're not, they have some serious re-evaluating to do. I don't expect any PLD (not even myself) to hold hate 100% of the time. With the low hate cap and multitude of hate erase moves, it is simply not possible. Cotanking is more than acceptable, and a PLD dealing good dmg is never a waste (provided they know how.)

@Greatguardian:
I've seen said "good MNK" try a WAR sub throughout 90% of our lowman endeavors. He can tank Chloris and Glavoid and such with ease, which is nice. But when it comes to rougher things like Apademak or Pantokrator... he got rolled. Apademak's Enstun only needs to proc once before the MNK is nearly perma-stunned and getting his face torn off. Add Fulmination from the TP feed by not having shadows/counter to save you... and someone's gonna have to brew it cause the MNK's getting raped. Maybe it was bad luck. Either way, I don't like luck being a factor in a win or a wipe.

[Cream_Soda]

There are a few mobs where /nin is relevant, but 95% of the time, /war is going to be more than fine. And even then, mnk/nin is going to be perfectly tanking something like Apademak.

[Greatguardian]

There are a few mobs where /nin is relevant, but 95% of the time, /war is going to be more than fine. And even then, mnk/nin is going to be perfectly tanking something like Apademak.

This ^. Also, having a solid WHM is important no matter who is tanking. Between my Mnk and my buddy's awesomely quick WHM, I've never had any sort of issues tanking, well, anything on Mnk/War. Mnk/Nin certainly does make a few fights less of a hassle (e.g. Alfard), but aside from those fights /War is king. If Apademak's Enstun is rocking a Mnk, is the Mnk not switching to PDT gear when stunned? Is the WHM just asleep? What's up there? It has nothing to do with luck.

[Shakuzen]

It does indeed seem that PLD has become the new gimp job in the game... at least, in public opinion.
Similarly to PUP and DRG, people have simply become too lazy to consort with the complexity that is Paladin.
"Why bother putting all of that strain on mages and DDs to think about the benefits and/or consequences of their actions in regards to the success of a Paladin tank when we can just get a high HP, hard hitting job to pummel whatever it is we are killing and just cure bomb it?" Seems to be the public opinion, at least on Asura. However, Paladin can still tank most monsters that Monk can as long as the party knows what they are doing. Sure it takes a lot more effort, but in the end Paladin can tank Iratham, Shinryu, Rani, etc just as well as MNK. On the other hand, it takes an awful lot more effort to get the necessary equipment and skills to tank as a Paladin than it does Monk. An extremely simple solution:
Boost Paladin's maximum HP to almost equal Monk's. Boost the damage dealt by Swords slightly
I believe that this would result in Paladins being a slightly more defence capable alternative to Monks, but that they still deal significantly less damage.

[Neisan_Quetz]

What's the benefit of bringing a crutch job again? Why would I want a tank that deals less damage when I can bring one that deals more and not be in danger of dying?

[Renromix]

PLD deal less dmg you get more hit then mob do more nasty tp move
MNK deal more dmg less hit from mob because of counter plus subtleblow less nasty tp move
but when fighting mage mob maybe PLD is the best to tank (pld/blm/whm or rdm) set up maybe?

[Neisan_Quetz]

Mnk can cap MDT and still keep capped haste, or drop a few pieces if no Avalon and still cap MDT, what is the issue with magic casting mobs again?

[Renromix]

no issue at all just saying possibility for pld but i guess not