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  1. #21
    Player Wolfe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    88
    Character
    Wolfemasters
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkimi View Post
    Complete nonsense really, sorry. The fact that only WHM can use cures higher than IV means they're near-essential for most things. Try curing a DD fighting Rani/Raja/Shinryu using only Cure IV from a subjob, it's not gonna work unless there's 3 of you spamming it.
    Actually, I have seen a BRD90/RDM45 play full healer for an entire alliance, successfully. He was trying to tell me how useless WHM are. He did a good job, but he was strictly geared for healing and not geared like a BRD should be. But, the point is, it can be done.
    (0)
    "Love thy wolf, more than thy neighbor." ~ W. Masters
    "I'm sorry if you don't like me, but I'm not sorry for being who I am." ~ W. Masters
    "There's nothing wrong with being wrong." ~ W. Masters

    Quality of Life Ideas & More:
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/43689-Quality-of-Life-Ideas-More

  2. #22
    Player Wolfe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    88
    Character
    Wolfemasters
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Vraelia View Post
    I would like to say, I am a 90 RDM and WHM....and for you to state that about RDMs. Is completely disrespectful in my eyes. RDMs are masters of Refreshing as well as Enfeebling. So, please, back off of RDMs. lols

    Anyways, I do agree that WHMs should get a Auto-Refresh JT. It would be useful. lol
    Yes, it is disrespectful of RDM for me to say that. But before the level cap increase past 75, WHM were not wanted for meripo (merit parties) because a RDM was more useful. So hopefully you can see where my distaste of RDM comes from. I started the game on WHM and will probably die on WHM. No one ever lets me come on anything but WHM because I am good at it (maybe I should start letting people die, I'm sure that would fix the problem).
    (0)
    "Love thy wolf, more than thy neighbor." ~ W. Masters
    "I'm sorry if you don't like me, but I'm not sorry for being who I am." ~ W. Masters
    "There's nothing wrong with being wrong." ~ W. Masters

    Quality of Life Ideas & More:
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/43689-Quality-of-Life-Ideas-More

  3. #23
    Player Wolfe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    88
    Character
    Wolfemasters
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Fredjan View Post
    To the WHM/RDMs in this thead saying they /rdm so they can refresh themselves:

    A WHM/SCH has pretty much the exact same thing in the form of 3mp/tic Sublimation at 90 (SCH45 gets the improved trait, and at level 85+ it's just insane for scholar but that's another subject for another job). At that point it's a question of MP conservation and flexibility from Light Arts' job abilities (/SCH) or convert with a 10minute timer (/RDM) and to me the choice is obvious. I - personally - have never used /rdm, and don't see the point of it outside of cases of having an easy-to-access dark based sleep or dispel without having to pop Dark Arts + Addendum: Black. RDM sub loses the entire point of MP conservation and flexibility (not to mention the conserve MP job trait itself) for raw MP, and that doesn't mean it's superior even without access to Refresh II from a Red Mage. But hey, to each their own.

    In abyssea, most White Mages do use refresh atma as some have said here, and there's chances regardless of the sub you'll run low on MP (I feel /sch WHMs last the longest, but that's me). But in a lot of cases, I'll pop Sublimation, and have it fully charged and not even need it, and the buff eventually wears off. In cases like this, it doesn't really matter what the sub is. There's uses for even Black Mage sub (okay, one use... Stun). Conserve MP was the main reason I used /BLM back in the day, but /SCH has it. I have never /BLM'ed just for Warp for example outside of easy traveling to HP when I'm moving around. You'd be surprised how many people I know use it just for Warp after an event... hello, instant warp scroll, only 10 Conquest Points DO YOU HAVE IT?! I personally could get over 30000 instant warp scrolls. That's awesome.

    /minor support job rant off. That isn't meant to offend people or anything, it's just how I feel about White Mage's support job options. To each their own, and I'll stick to my view of them. :P

    To the point at hand (the topic):

    I completely agree that White Mage could use something unique to itself that'd offer MP restoration/conservation. We have no natural refresh without having to resort to weaponskills or support jobs. I would definitely like to see WHM get something, even Auto-Refresh if naught else. Orison Pantaloons +2 was awesome and I feel it's one of the nicest pieces of empyrean armor out there. 5% of a cure amount doesn't seem like a ton but it's more than one'd think. As an example... 1532 Cure 6 for example (something I've managed to reach) would net ~76 MP back. Say I used Light Arts and Penury, lowering the cost to 113~ MP (not even considering further conserve MP procs which are possible). I'd end up spending only 37-38 MP to cure for 1500+. That's just win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aaralyn View Post
    I think the main point is that every other mage job has some form of natural refresh, and WHM is the only one that doesn't. It really doesn't make much sense. We're the main job that is supposed to keep the parties alive, but we don't get any native abilities to back ourselves up.

    One could argue that 89% of the time a WHM should have another job to support them in that area, but that still doesn't change the fact that we have nothing native to us. While every other job does, and has support from subjobs and other people's main jobs on top of it.

    I wouldn't say that one is needed per say, but definitely would be nice. And make more sense.
    Thank you both for seeing and understanding the point I was trying to make.
    (0)
    "Love thy wolf, more than thy neighbor." ~ W. Masters
    "I'm sorry if you don't like me, but I'm not sorry for being who I am." ~ W. Masters
    "There's nothing wrong with being wrong." ~ W. Masters

    Quality of Life Ideas & More:
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/43689-Quality-of-Life-Ideas-More

  4. #24
    Player Tsukino_Kaji's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    4,029
    Character
    Tsukinokaji
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfe View Post
    Maybe not complainers, but I sure as hell am a whiner. I want refresh. I love my refresh atmas but there is a whole world outside of Abyssea and my atmas don't seem to work there. Every mage job in the game has some way to recover MP, except for WHM. Complainers or not, I want to know why SE has yet to give us some kind of refresh.
    Then sub SCH.
    (0)

  5. #25
    Player Wolfe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    88
    Character
    Wolfemasters
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji View Post
    Then sub SCH.
    Do you completely miss the point of "Natural Refresh?" Did you even read what I wrote? I am not talking about support jobs. If that was the only issue, there would be no point in posting this thread. I already /SCH and that defines the WHM job. It does not enhance it the way it should, it defines it. Allowing WHM to cast group Stoneskin, enhances the job. Casting a spell for 50% of the MP or casting time, that enhances the job. Sublimation even helps to enhance the job. BUT, without a natural refresh, Sublimation from SCH and Refresh from RDM no longer enhance the job, they define it.

    The fact that your answer to my post is "then sub SCH" is the best you can do, proves my point entirely. /SCH does not enhance the job anymore, it defines it. Without /SCH, the job would be useless because MP would be gone in seconds.
    (0)
    "Love thy wolf, more than thy neighbor." ~ W. Masters
    "I'm sorry if you don't like me, but I'm not sorry for being who I am." ~ W. Masters
    "There's nothing wrong with being wrong." ~ W. Masters

    Quality of Life Ideas & More:
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/43689-Quality-of-Life-Ideas-More

  6. #26
    Player Effilil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windhurstian for life!
    Posts
    34
    Character
    Effilil
    World
    Lakshmi
    Main Class
    BLM Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfe View Post
    I started the game on WHM and will probably die on WHM. No one ever lets me come on anything but WHM because I am good at it (maybe I should start letting people die, I'm sure that would fix the problem).
    I'm very much the same way...and I have let people die and they STILL want me as whm on everything...

    also...
    Dagan is Empy club ws...not all whm are going to go through all the bother to make an empy club (I'm up to that leech VNM, but can't get my clear abyssite to change..0/100 on it so far...and no one doing it on my server the last few weeks) I really only dd on solo on whm when running around doing quests, so I'm not in a huge hurry to get that club finished
    (0)
    Windhurst for life!

    smn 90 / whm 90 / blu 90
    blm drg and bst on the way up there

  7. #27
    Player Vraelia's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    77
    I am sorry Wolfe, I didn't mean no disrespect towards WHM. However, this should strengthen your cause, I hope:

    Yes, RDMs were the first healers to be called upon in Meritpts. However, I was called (believe it or not) on WHM for Meritpts. Yes, I went as it, but it was a strain on my MP. Yes, I had BRDs in the PT. However, I didn't have any means of natural refreshing. I always panicked. I struggled. But, I did a good job, considering no one died.

    So, yes a Natural Refresh for WHMs, please SE add it in for us.
    (0)
    "The only reason why I kill you is because.....you pointed your sword at my pride." -Byakkya-
    "The only thing for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." -Alucard-
    I love idiots. Oh wait, no I don't. Idiots are stupid. XD lols
    Red Mage, White Mage, and Samurai Princess.
    90 RDM, 90 WHM, and 90 SAM - All well equiped.

  8. #28
    Player Bigboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    68
    Character
    Bigboy
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 90
    By disregarding the subjob options, you kind of miss the mechanic that WHM benefits most from. That being that they don't have to sub WHM, which offers next to nothing in the job trait department, but get all the useful spells of a WHM and the utility of a decent subjob.

    The game is not meant to be played without a subjob. If I want to remove status ailments on my RDM, I have to sub WHM. If I sub SCH, I am constantly having to flip through the Stratagem mechanic, nerfing half my spells and lowering reaction time that is essential to a RDM. Even then, I am still gonna not have Stona, and at the moment Viruna. I get some fun utility out of a BLM sub, and even a larger mana pool with some Auto-refresh from SMN. I see obvious benefits from a /NIN sub. I also don't get any WS (like WHM does) that restores huge chunks of mana despite the RDM's intended role as a melee-mage.

    As a WHM main, I get all the WHM perks and a huge list of awesome subjobs. I mean, getting convert has to be a godsend to a WHM. As a RDM, I have to either blow my 10 min cooldown on Divine seal, or cast multiple cure IVs to bring myself up to white health again.

    I honestly think you underestimate the value of your subjob options, as a healing class. You could be forced to sub WHM like everyone else that wants to heal, or have all of your offensive/utility spells completely cut off when you heal like a SCH.
    (0)

  9. #29
    Player Radio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Cait Sith
    Posts
    26
    What are whms doing nowadays that has them running out of MP and in a rage about refresh? I have a whm that is geared and I play it when necessary but the job has gotten to be so easy I'm not very passionate about it anymore, I'd rather heal on sch. Giving whm refresh I isn't a big deal to me if the demand is there. Allowing whm to learn it post level 80 wouldn't be game changing (I don't always whm but when I do I /sch). Auto refresh on the other hand is smn territory. (Yes pld has auto refresh as well, Lord knows they needed it!) The day whm gets Auto Refresh should be the day sch gets Cure V AND VI, and rdm gets -na spells without /whm or /sch. It shouldn't happen.
    (0)

  10. #30
    Player Alistrianna's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    4
    Character
    Alistrianna
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 95
    I haven't played WHM too much outside of Abyssea since I leveled it up, but when I have I've never really found the lack of 'natural' refresh to be a problem. I took the time to get the gear that gives Refresh, which gives +7 Refresh total and also made sure I got the Orison pantaloons +2 as soon as I could. Taking the time to get gear that enhanced my MP restoration has paid off more than complaining that WHM has no natural ability to get refresh. Also, I don't see how even just adding Auto Refresh would make you guys happy. On its own, its not that great. It gives 20 MP/minute. which means for it to have helped your MP abilities at all, 2 minutes and 6 seconds would have to go by just so you could get an extra Cure 3. You can rest for 18 seconds at Lv80+ and get that MP faster. So even if thats all WHM ended up getting from SE, you would still need your gear and support job abilities to enhance it so it could become worthwhile.
    (0)

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