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  1. #21
    Player Aeron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    137
    Character
    Lanselot
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Alexandero View Post
    Yes, as long as they have RNGs and THFs to transfer hate to them. The acts are proof that enmity is still broken. For instance, both myself (119 RUN) and an Aegis Pld went with an alliance to WoE 13 last night and spammed it. We both ended up changing jobs because neither of us could keep the hate. We were, in effect, just gimping our alliance at that point. Pld more so than Run, at least I could buff the party. When grouping with a party, I can sometimes keep hate, in an alliance, it's not going to happen. It becomes a dps burn.

    Gone are the days that the DPS worries about their hate generation. Players today have a burn mentality, that's thanks to you Square. Most of us that played back at 75 remember having to turn our backs when we would get hate and allow the tank to get it back. We grew up in dune parties and other xp parties that utilized a tank, so we knew how to play with a tank. Todays crowd grew up in an aby era where it was burn burn burn. They don't know how to play with a tank, and whm's are to the point that they can keep everyone alive anyway.

    Advice: To fix tanking you have to make the punishment for over dps'ing not worth it. When we pulled hate on a dunes bunny, we died in 3 hits. We knew not to pull hate. Since aby dps is going to want to go all out. If that happens and they ignore the tanks, then they die in three hits. Boost RUNs and PLDs defense and strip more of theirs, to the point that dt gear allows them to die in 4 hits instead of three.

    I can keep hate, a PLD can keep hate, but neither of us can do it when the dps is in a parsing mentality. We just can put out that much damage. They need to be in a "pay attention to my enmity" mentality. Like they once were when we needed tanks.
    This is one of the main reason I stopped playing 11. If you want to play as a tank in a ff game play 14. The jobs pld/war actually performs their role rather well and they designed the enmity system a lot better. Although all they really have to do is what dasva said and scale the enmity cap to total hp. The only reason that I could see them messing this up however is if they didn't scale the cap right and it allowed the tank to cap enmity relatively quickly so that for the rest of the fight the dds didn't have to worry and could just zerg it cuz that is boring. The enmity system is a tug of war game wear tanks are trying their best to stay ahead of the dds and the dds are trying there best to ride that line as to not pull agro. the scaling needs to be such that it would take the tank too long to cap enmity and still kill the boss, so that you cant just cap and kill but that you have to go all out as a tank to get as much enmity as possible with dds zerging behind you. If they pull aggro its because either they weren't paying attention and didn't let you build a lead or that the tank was neglectful in his duties as a tank to maintain enmity.
    (0)

  2. #22
    Player Selindrile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    628
    Character
    Selindrile
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Alexandero View Post
    Yes, as long as they have RNGs and THFs to transfer hate to them. The acts are proof that enmity is still broken.
    Don't mistake my statement that PLD has several engame uses now (which it does) for saying the enmity system is working well, I totally agree that it's still broken as a joke. THF transferring hate isn't even very effective now, once the THF and PLD reach enmity cap, which doesn't take long, the THF will have enmity as long as he's meleeing.

    Rng are admittedly the exception, but that's because of a combination of their plethora of -Enmity sets that are good on WS, and gaining no enmity from simply shooting, because of Decoy (and camouflage when decoy is down, tbh not sure how much of an effect this has, but seems to do something) So they only have to stay under the enmity cap enough to WS occasionally, between -enmity gear on WS and stealth shot, they can MOSTLY manage this.

    Rng have to watch their hate still, they DO need to stop WSing, not barrage, or stop shooting altogether if Decoy is down sometimes, melee DDs simply aren't in that position, it's more efficient for them to pull hate (at least while their damage mitigation tools are ready) than to stop DDing, in fact it's probably better for them to die and reset hate than to have their back turned for the same amount of time, etc. They simply don't have the enmity tools that Rng does.

    In conclusion, yes, fix Enmity plx.
    (1)

  3. #23
    Player
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,542
    Blm also sorta has the tools... unfortunately it's tied to AM/AM2 which still have ridiculous cast/recast times and insanely horrible dmg/mp ratios so it's not really feasible to actually use them. Douse is great but waaaaaaaaaay too long of a recast.

    Pup and bst also have tools in the form of transferring the hate to throw away pets (though for bst slightly less throw away due to timers) but good luck getting any no pet group to take either lol.

    smn gets that new bp that takes 25% of enmity... but given even mediocre DDs like those pet jobs can go from nothing to capped a couple times a minute anything less than full enmity loss/transfer isn't really great anymore (other than for rng pts). So the only current work around is greatly lowering generation but really only rng can do that since they possess the only rapidly repeatable way of effectively going beyond the -enmity gear cap and only because they can go all the way to zero. Even if they raised the -enmity gear cap to 90 (and put it on a bunch more gear or something) it still wouldn't help on high hp mobs

    Should also be noted that those with strong magical ws if there pt sets up for it achieve something similar to the ranged relics with relatively low enmity for the dmg ws... but your melee dps will override that just like rngs shots will when decoy is down though not quite as bad I think because attack speed differences between shooting and meleeing which is what ends up determining who has mob attention when everyone is capped
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    Last edited by dasva; 01-15-2015 at 08:22 AM.

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