Test Server Feedback Event: Legion

[Detoxy]

Here's a Vid of the fight I made. Pretty Much got wiped, but eh Legion still got its kinks to be worked out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee09w...1&feature=plcp

[Alhanelem]

Finally, the challenge and throwback to the old school that *some* of us have been waiting for!

If only this could be done without excluding half the jobs in the game.

I don't mind a challenge. But the problem with making anything really hard in this game is only the currently popular bandwagon jobs can/will be used.

It's great that there's content you can't one-shot the first or second time you try it.

Actually it wasn't my first or second time (personally).

However, the event should really have a difficulty progression (meaning that there should be an ideal sequence for the chambers and they should gradually get harder, rather than all be superhard right off the bat). Currently all of the chambers are of similar difficulty, and within each chamber you have a few waves: Hard, Very hard, and (Can't get this far).

I think you should step back, take a look at the game, and ask yourself if you really want another event where the only really wanted jobs are WAR MNK WHM BLM BRD.

Don't get me wrong though- The event is quite fun even considering its difficulty. However, I'm concerned about being allowed to go by any serious group on the live servers when my most built up jobs are not the most popular ones.

On the test event, it was basically "come as you are, form a team and wing it," and after a few alliance beat-ins we hammered out a workable strategy with what we had- but no linkshell or serious group is going to accept this- They are going to mold the perfect setup with the perfect jobs and nobody else will be allowed.

[zagam]

If only this could be done without excluding half the jobs in the game.

I don't mind a challenge. But the problem with making anything really hard in this game is only the currently popular bandwagon jobs can/will be used.

Actually it wasn't my first or second time (personally).

However, the event should really have a difficulty progression (meaning that there should be an ideal sequence for the chambers and they should gradually get harder, rather than all be superhard right off the bat). Currently all of the chambers are of similar difficulty, and within each chamber you have a few waves: Hard, Very hard, and (Can't get this far).

I think you should step back, take a look at the game, and ask yourself if you really want another event where the only really wanted jobs are WAR MNK WHM BLM BRD.

Don't get me wrong though- The event is quite fun even considering its difficulty. However, I'm concerned about being allowed to go by any serious group on the live servers when my most built up jobs are not the most popular ones.

On the test event, it was basically "come as you are, form a team and wing it," and after a few alliance beat-ins we hammered out a workable strategy with what we had- but no linkshell or serious group is going to accept this- They are going to mold the perfect setup with the perfect jobs and nobody else will be allowed.

Everything in life is about being the most efficient. Its not SE fault its human nature. They tried with the proc system and most hate it but unfortunately without it there will always be job exclusivity. You cant have both.

[Alhanelem]

On the contrary, it absolutely is SE's fault. Part of their fault is in class balance. The other part of their fault is in not designing the content such that many classes are valuable.

You do not need a proc syxtem to make more jobs valued. You need to make the things that those jobs DO more valued to make those jobs valued. People hate the proc system because 1) it slows down fights and 2) it's a very artificial way to include other jobs, because those jobs are not being included based on their merits but on the need to trigger a proc.

The bad news is the whole goal of this event is to kill stuff as fast as you can. This DIRECTLY caters to the perfectionist crowd.

The bit of good news is that you do not have to full-clear these battles to be rewarded- clearing the first wave drops a trophy and awards a key item (to the leader it seems?), which means you progress, as the KI from each battle is needed to unlock an extra one. Thus it's not totally inflexible, but average players will likely still be disheartened when they cannot fully complete the battle.

[zagam]

Class balance? so you want every melee to to do the same damage swings, same damage WS? so the only real difference between jobs is the color of the armor. SE gave variety in jobs. It has the most out of many MMORPGs don't blame SE for the players to find the most efficient ways to do things.

[Alhanelem]

Class balance? so you want every melee to to do the same damage swings, same damage WS?

Umm, no, that's not what I want. Balanced does not mean "100% identical."

Balanced here would mean something more like "All classes in the same role category, should, using their own specific play style, be able to produce a comparable end result within that role." This does not mean 'every class hits with the same damage, delay, and weapon skills and every support class has the same buffs and heals for the same amounts with the same recast and same costs."

Yes, SE gave us variety in jobs, but having that variety is pointless if the variations are not accepted in events.

It has the most out of many MMORPGs

Actually, that's not true.

MapleStory has 27 jobs (Only final forms listed): Assassin, bandit, dual blade, Hero, Paladin, Dark Knight, Bowmaster, Crossbowmaster, Corsair, Buccaneer, Fire/Poison archmage, Ice/Lightning archmage, Bishop, Aran, Evan, Mercedes, Mechanic, Wild Hunter, Battle Mage, Demon Slayer, Cannoneer, Thunder breaker, Dawn warrior, Blaze wizard, Wind Archer, Night Walker, and another one I don't know the name of coming soon.

[zagam]

Umm, no, that's not what I want. Balanced does not mean "100% identical."

Balanced here would mean something more like "All classes in the same role category, should, using their own specific play style, be able to produce a comparable end result within that role." This does not mean 'every class hits with the same damage, delay, and weapon skills and every support class has the same buffs and heals for the same amounts with the same recast and same costs."

So again, SE has made different classes with different play styles and damage. which is exactly what you want. But because class A does 1% more damage then class B the more efficient players would rather take player A and its SE fault?
SE created proc system which is overwhelming unpopular and is basically disarming it buy having VW mobs capped the only lights that matter because the players demanded it. Face it, the end result is the mob dead as fast as possible and you'll never achieve that with a job that does less damage. You want all jobs to be included then you have to make all jobs capable of do that. Which....... you don't want.



And I said many not all, I can list hundreds of obscure games no ones ever heard of.

[Zeo]

I don't think it's so much having job tiers as it is having such disparity between them.

[Alhanelem]

So again, SE has made different classes with different play styles and damage. which is exactly what you want. But because class A does 1% more damage then class B the more efficient players would rather take player A and its SE fault?

The disparity between some classes designed for the same role is much, much greater than "1%." Yes, it's SE's fault the classes are out of alignment, because they made the game and it's their job to make sure things are fair and balanced.

If you can complete Content X with Job Z in 10 minutes, and with job Y in 11 minutes, to me that's a trivial difference and no reasonable player should say "You're weaker than job Z so you cant play this content. Sorry!" It's when the disparity is more significant than that when there's a measureable balance issue that needs to be addressed. This is why Warrior got the nerf bat this patch- It was far more than "1%" better than most other jobs able to fill a DD role. Of course, that was just one part of the balance issues in the game.

[Greatguardian]

Jobs that suck in groups excel solo/lowman. Legion seemed to give solo/lowman jobs a niche at the least by making aggro/link ranges so ridiculous. If you want to roll PUP, advertise yourself as being the guy to hold the off-NMs while the big, bad Warriors beat the crap out of the /assist.

It's not like every group is going to be rolling with Aegis/Ochain Paladins for holding them (especially since an Aegis/Ochain PLD probably has some other completely decked out DD job they could bring, too).