Stormsurge vs Boost/Gain.

[Cabalabob]

Repeat suggestion #47: Give Stormsurge +3% weather effect

I think this is a nice idea, as long as this boost is effectively double weather, so if there is single weather or double weather already in effect then it would do nothing.

[Siiri]

Scholar doesn't need anything. You have your overpowered 2 hour which is used for all new content, guaranteeing you a spot in every alliance, or 2 in nyzul party of 6. Just hope SE doesn't nerf it, which they should.

[Sotek]

You're totally right, SCH being literally only useful because of its 2Hr means SCH should get absolutely no adjustments what-so-ever, Libra and Modus should remain absolutely useless and a waste of space.

Or, you know, we could accept that fact that other than Regen and Storm spells SCH pretty much lacks any sense of real uniqueness outside its 2Hr, continue to improve on that niche and stop being ignorant of the fact that SE is adding 20 new 2Hrs and Embrava is almost certainly going to become less useful if SE continues their trend of 2Hr adjustments.

Fairly irrelevant though, considering the development team doesn't give a rats ass about what goes on in the job forums unless they've already got something planned, implemented it on the test server and are looking for feedback when all they're going to get is "This completely sucks". Quite obviously they're too busy playing chef to actually bother balancing this game worth a damn.

[Siiri]

You're totally right, SCH being literally only useful because of its 2Hr means SCH should get absolutely no adjustments what-so-ever, Libra and Modus should remain absolutely useless and a waste of space.

I didn't see where we were discussing MV and Libra in this thread. I thought it was about if stormsurge needed a 15% increase to weather spells. I don't think that is needed. Sch has already replaced blm in any alliance for stuns, just take a sch/blm riding strats. Giving them more storm damage over blm in addition to ebullience is to much. I understand sch had a bad year or two, but scholar is a job always right on the cusp of obsoleting white mage and black mage if buffed too much.

[Sotek]

I didn't see where we were discussing MV and Libra in this thread.

No, but I believe your exact words were "Scholar doesn't need anything", and Modus working and Libra being worth a damn is something that is needed.

I thought it was about if stormsurge needed a 15% increase to weather spells.

Wrong again. I suggested Stormsurge getting a +3%/merit boost (some time ago), everyone has either agreed with me or outright rejected the idea without offering any alternative or building on the concept. Nope, just "hurhur it's overpowered", "hurhur Embrava" and "SCH can apparently completely replace Stunners, cast Storm spells and nuke efficiently all simultaneously".
The premise for this thread (and my suggestion) is that Stormsurge is shit and Storm spells are mostly accessibly to everyone, so far you've added pretty much nothing to the thread.

Giving them more storm damage over blm in addition to ebullience is to much.

Storm spells are unique to SCH and we absolutely cannot cast them on BLM or WHM, I called it months ago:

inb4 "no double weather because sch doesn't share storm spells with me " and all that other assorted idiocy.

Horseshit events like Nyzul hardly count in this respect, BLM and WHM were completely irrelevant in Nyzul long before SE released Embrava and Storm spells have next to nothing to do with the event itself. Arguably Aurorastorm is a boon, but Cure IV is already at such a ridiculous state that it hardly matters.

[Merton9999]

I'm gonna play devil's advocate on this one and you guys can tell me if I'm being dumb or math-lazy.

When I'm on WHM, that +25 bonus to the whole party is nice as far as that big number goes, but it feels limited in the sense that it has to be the same stat for everyone, or at least for all the DDs and another for the back line. Now of course I could run around trying to align myself perfectly to give different people different stats, but that kind of BRD act doesn't seem feasible when my primary purpose is to keep the group alive, so I don't bother with that.

On SCH my group has gotten into asking for the Stormsurge stat that mods their preferred WS. I comply because I'm generally a people-pleaser over a number cruncher that wants to argue, but that's my question for this group. Would the dps from giving +12 STR firestorm to everyone outweigh the boosts to their main WS from different storm spells? I'm thinking primarily Abyssea now where WSs are going off every second. Outside it would be different of course.

So what I'm saying is +12 seems balanced to me because I can tailor it to each player whereas on WHM I'm stuck with giving the same +25 to everyone. But that's under the assumption that a different stat based on WS mod comes close to +25 STR to all DDs over time. That's where I'm math-lazy.

I don't think a +15% additional weather bonus would be bad, and I certainly don't think it would be unbalanced, but I'd miss giving specific weather to people. That's just a personal preference, enjoying the job as pseudo-Geomancer as I do. Or Sotek, are you saying keep the +7 from the original merits and have Argute Loafers +2 add the 3% weather bonus per merit? That I could do.

I was always hoping for a JA for storms though. One that elevates them to double weather or double/triple stormsurge stat. A timer that allowed it to be kept on 2-3 people would be ideal.

All the time I've played SCH I knew exactly one person in game that had some weird hatred for it and thought it was overpowered. Incidentally she was a very annoying emo borderline-suicidal teenager. I was happy all the adults I played with said watching me play it made them interested in leveling it, regardless of the work they put into their WHM and/or BLM. Most importantly, all of them understood the inherent limitations in actually playing the job, and that its balance status could not be determined by comparing two numbers in a chat log.

[Delvish]

I have competitions with my BLM and WHM friends. Never win at either, but am at least a contender as SCH. We are each well geared for are jobs and play them well too. SCH is a secondary mage. We can't surpass the mains, but we can suffice. The WHMs and BLMs that complain are the poor skilled and poor equipped BLMs and WHMs that see SCHs oneshotting mobs with Water V while they can't get half-way down on BLizzard V (True story). Thanks for the Devil's Advocate Merto, good insight to the perks of both.

[Sasaraixx]

Merton you do make some good points. If it is a choice between have +25 stats or +12 and applying them individually, I think I would take the former. I know a lot of the newer weaponskills have funky mods on them, so I can see your point. The question of whether or not giving +25 STR to your entire front line party can pull ahead of missing out on giving a more moderate boost to those unique modifiers is the proper one. Like you, I'm not sure! I think you would also have to factor in the time you spend casting each of those unique spells and possible stratagems used, etc. I also think that in Abyssea it would make less of a difference given all of the inflated stats do to atmas and cruor enhancements.

I can see the "balance" argument, but if we want to play devil's advocate, as someone else pointed out a WHM/SCH can provide most of the storm spells on top of the stat gain. The ability to do both had been exclusive to SCH.

I'm actually a bit ambivalent to this issue. Like Sotek, I'd rather see the other SCH issues dealt with. And if I hear one more person complain about Embrava, I may throw something at them. I won't type the rant that I would love to give them for fear that it might draw SE to the complaints and they actually begin to believe that SCH is not only fine, but overpowered.

[Merton9999]

Yeah the reason I posted was because I'm really not sure myself, but my main point is that there's so much more to consider than just the straight final number of 25 vs. 12.

For example, you're right about the time to apply each storm individually, but then I think what a pain it is on WHM to reapply boosts mid-battle since you have to be in range. As we all know, sometimes coming in range is not advisable, especially given the long casting time of boosts as opposed to barspells. So realistically with boosts, people may be going without any bonus at all whereas with storms you can safely full-time the bonus, at least from the safe-distance perspective. I'm especially thinking of dispel happy mobs, where boosts are the last thing I would reapply on WHM, but on SCH I have a little more freedom there.

I'm not sure what you mean about WHM/SCH being able to do both. /SCH storms won't have the +stat bonus. Unless you meant just the random weather activation for nukes/SC's and weather-specific gear activation. Then yeah, that sits oddly with me too.

[Ezikiel]

there is a Scholar potency boost under startagems i think paired with storm spells it should give double weather and a higher boost