Small Request to Raise Dagger's Base Damage a tad.

[Aana]

I guess ill have to go thf to legion once i finish my mandau as there is a war in my LS that is about as close to the magical "equal skill, equal gear" to me that I have ever found that I have access to play with on a regular basis.

Both have relic and empy (well ill obtain my 75 mandau tomorrow, so close enough :P). Both have premiere gear of similar calibur. Both play very aggressively. Both gear swap and optimize TP builds. X factor that we both play 'intelligently' (hard to quantify) and both had a friendly rivalry that goes back at least 3 years from his war vs my drg in einherjar twice a week as #1 and #2 without fail (unless someone died or had some otherwise terrible luck). He's frankly the best war on the server im aware of, and im (likely) the best drg (i know of 2 other mythic drgs, but never seen them in action) and my thf is of a very similar calibur as my drg once i get a mandau as far as reaching potential. This guy is basically the barometer I use to see if I can pull my weight on any job. An intelligent, superbly geared war!? BLASPHEMY!!!

I just hope legion isnt another damn medicated overdose event. Is it to much to ask for ONE large event that is 'clean' to see where everyone stands instead of this atma/atmacite/med spamming crap? I have been looking forward to legion for just this reason for ages. I want to see how everything shakes out at 99 with all the adjustments without being swung by who uses the most meds, who get stuck procing for half the fight instead of killing. Just a clean slate, even field to go romp in. I hope legion is what i think it will be ><

[SpankWustler]

So let me get this straight, the argument here is that apparently MOST of war's damage comes from retaliation? ...lol

When a Warrior is the only thing hitting a thing with a thing, that Warrior can take full advantage of Retaliation for more damage.

When a Thief is the only thing hitting a thing with a thing, that Thief can not use Trick Attack at all and is limited by Bully recast for Sneak Attack.

He's not saying most of Warrior's damage comes from Retaliation, just that a one-melee situation super-duper heavily favors Warrior over Thief. More than almost any situation would favor almost any melee over Thief.

In a similar vein, I think Thief and one or two other competent melee leads to better Sneak Attack and Trick Attack results than most situations. The monster doesn't spin like a top and no one present is daft, dim, water-headed, malevolent, or malicious enough to move out of the way of Trick Attack.

Thief's performance is more at the mercy of outside factors and other players than most melee, even other "low attack" melee such as Beastmaster or Dancer.

[Babekeke]

So let me get this straight, the argument here is that apparently MOST of war's damage comes from retaliation? ...lol

Please explain to us a situation or two where THF would encompass close to 70:30 of a parse against a 'fairly equal' war. Or what are you considering 'not miles apart' are you talking 50%, 40%, 5%? Sure the above comparison is a little off, but the point is in almost every single situation(at least that I can think of) a WAR(or SAM, or DRK) is going to be 30%+ higher on a parse of <.<

*Unless of course your comparing an extremely high end to an extremely low end gear/skill player. While it'll always be hard to get 'equal skill and gear' we can try.

I have no idea how you got that from what I said...
Here's a hypothetical (but highly probable) situation: Ukon WAR with 25% haste gear, Hasso and haste (from whm that the war is duoing with). 50% haste total resulting in a swing every 4 seconds. Giving the benefit of the doubt for 25% double-attack, and a 6-hit setup, it's 16 seconds between WS, +2 secs for the WS animation. If the mob is hitting on you exclusively, and you retalliate once between each WS, you get the TP from that, not just the damage so now you just reduced your WS timer from 18 seconds to 14 seconds. More than a 22% increase in damage caused by retalliation.

It's hypothetical, and I'm not 100% on what sort of figures for double-attack a WAR can reach in a 6-hit with Ukon, but you get the picture. (I made it 6-hit since it made the numbers easier for averaging double-attack once per ws, and it actually made the difference slightly less increase).

When a Warrior is the only thing hitting a thing with a thing, that Warrior can take full advantage of Retaliation for more damage.

When a Thief is the only thing hitting a thing with a thing, that Thief can not use Trick Attack at all and is limited by Bully recast for Sneak Attack.

He's not saying most of Warrior's damage comes from Retaliation, just that a one-melee situation super-duper heavily favors Warrior over Thief. More than almost any situation would favor almost any melee over Thief.

In a similar vein, I think Thief and one or two other competent melee leads to better Sneak Attack and Trick Attack results than most situations. The monster doesn't spin like a top and no one present is daft, dim, water-headed, malevolent, or malicious enough to move out of the way of Trick Attack.

Thief's performance is more at the mercy of outside factors and other players than most melee, even other "low attack" melee such as Beastmaster or Dancer.

Thanks SW, I'm glad someone got it, so what I was saying obviously wasn't just garbage.

[Karbuncle]

I almost responded to you like Star, But i re-read it a couple times, and realized all you were saying was "Another factor is Retaliation, So while its not a huge WAR boost, Its something to consider".



Its very misleading, you should clarify just a little, I can see where Star is coming from.

[Starry]

Yea, I read it a few times and I just couldn't get if he was meaning something else; it really sounded the way I responsed to -- lol.

[saevel]

That's because nobody wants to go smn >.> So if they can get you on it, that's more useful than trying to find someone else who even has it above level 4.

This totally this. Simply put having SMN for unique procs > having more then one dagger proc (usually DNC).

My geared jobs are WAR SAM DRK BLU RDM. I have a 90 Almace 99 TP Bonus GKT and 99 Magian GAXE (WS+10%) and a 90 Sissy GSWD. Guess which job I'm constantly asked to go? Not my better geared BLU / WAR / SAM / RDM but DRK. Because apparently not many people have it leveled, it covers useful procs and makes the COR's chaos roll better. I don't like having to go DRK all the time, I feel dirty because it's not geared up to my own personal standard, but if it's needed then it's needed. So don't feel bad if party's are asking you to go SMN over THF, to them it's easier to put you in the SMN slot and know it's taken care of then to have u come THF (a common job now) and have to scrounge for a SMN.

[Babekeke]

Yea, I read it a few times and I just couldn't get if he was meaning something else; it really sounded the way I responsed to -- lol.

Ok, I edited it... hope this makes more sense now?

Retalliation allows a WAR to do more damage to a mob that is attacking it. (due to extra TP gained from counters allowing them to WS more frequently).