Small Request to Raise Dagger's Base Damage a tad.

[Aana]

And as expected, we agree on 99% of thf stuff. All of the points about enmity being broken, TH being very hit or miss (ie you need it and its super valuable, or its 100% useless) etc are entirely true. The other 'aspects' of thf are broke. I doubt you will find many thf that feel their contributions in non-DD ways are very robust at the moment regarding large personnel events (VW etc).

Im not saying thf has no problems. It does. And there need to be some very strong adjustments made to core game systems like enmity if they want thf to focus on that system, otherwise they should scrap the idea of enmity management and take thf somewhere else. Thats a whole other conversation.

I have complaints about thf. Damage isnt one of them. I pull my weight with the big boys and when i Thf/War they better be on their A-game or get trounced by lolThf and should feel ashamed. I do not see thfs current damage standing as anything to be embarassed about or needs 'fixing'. How much damage is enough? Everyones opinion is different, but i say we have 'enough'. Once the saveTP nerf hits, I will be quite content on my ability to put out damage with the rest of the DDs. DW3 was frankly all the upgrade to Potential Damage i ever wanted. An enhancement like "SA works from any side" wouldnt increase actual damage potential, so there is still room to expand on the bully concept because it makes SA less frustrating without making any BARANCE issues on damage or whatnot. But as far as raw power increases, DW3 was it for me combined with a toning down of 2handers WS frequency which was frankly getting really out of hand with 40-60-80 TP returns I can get on drg and rng.

Thf has problems and, on most of you other ideas, i think you got something. I just dont feel that damage is the answer to those issues anymore than a sword boost would fix rdm functions or a sword boost would make pld tanking more viable. Similarly I dont see how more damage fixes a job with 'hate control' in a game that doesnt need it or TH when most of the events now it has, literally, no effect. Im fine with thfs current damage level. I am not fine with other poor mechanics of the job so I cant get behind a damage buff I dont think we need when we have bigger fish to fry.

[Karbuncle]

VW is ending

Theres still 1-2 more Voidwatch updates coming. and just because they stop adding to it doesn't mean suddenly the gear from it is going to stop being useful. Legion is going to be something that brings some light to TH. How much is up for grabs.

and it's going back to drop rates so TH will be needed

Mmmm, The only 2 Endgame events right now are Voidwatch, and Neo-Nyzul. Voidwatch TH is useless, Neo-Nyzul, With the upcoming update, is going to make THF a giant liability. Why bring a THF and risk slow kill speed and only hitting floor 80, When you can replace it with a real DD or BRD/COR and shoot for Floor 100 and have 100% Chance at a floor 100 Piece with our without THF?

Even for groups who shoot for Floor 80, It'd be more useful to have your Support job come /THF Than it would be to bring an actual THF.

whether only a small increase or not it's still an increase.

An increase the majority of players realize is not worth wasting a space for THF that could have been a Stronger DD, or a BRD/THF or some support job. Which is the right realization.

That said TH4+ needs to receive a bigger increase especially 9+ but not in the form of increased damage.

I'd agree, But it'd be like agreeing that our Sun needs to stop rising. SE will never adjust TH to be more useful than some mysterious effect they won't explain to us. Though i wouldn't object it, and in fact would welcome it. but that wouldn't solve the problem that THF is useless for any event where TH isn't useful, Which is most of the current endgame scene.

MOAR TH isn't the solution to fix THF, It'd just be more of the same, and never really fix the core problem of the job. It would be a nice step in the staircase i mentioned earlier though.

[Karbuncle]

I have complaints about thf. Damage isnt one of them. I pull my weight with the big boys and when i Thf/War they better be on their A-game or get trounced by lolThf and should feel ashamed

I out DD pretty much every pick-up DD i do voidwatch with, Generally Parsing 1st or 2nd even when I'm not in the BRD/COR party because I can play the job, and most people are idiots.

But when i combat a real WAR, i get stomped lol. Still, With Save TP being nerfed I'm sure they'll go from 30% to 25% and i might get bumped up 4% in the mean while...

IDK, I just always felt like THF should be a combination of a few things that make it great, including DD. If THF has nothing else for it as a DD, It should have Spike Damage. We don't even have that, a good WAR can spike 2x Higher with an Ukko's than a Good THF could with any WS they have, with SA and TA.

THF WS could use a serious Boost at the very least. Or SA and TA need to be adjusted to have a strong effect on WS. Maybe a JT level 95+, Or even Merited That gives a 15% Boost to Attack and WS Damage when stacked with the next SA or TA. Seems like a lot, But Its not. Spike Damage once per minute isn't as amazing as it used to be. Most DD can pump our Insane numbers without relying on a 1min timer.

Theres so much that could be done to THF, It'd take forever to talk about it. Theres a lot we need to fix about the job, Hopefully SE Addresses the fact TH is becoming more obsolete as time passes.

[Aana]

Id like to pretend that as TH usefulness is lessened, the reason why we didnt get subtle blow "Thf already has TH so we decided not to give thf SB in combination with DW" also wanes. Im tired of the "Thf has TH so you cant have nice things" BARANCE SE has gone for lately. I kinda wish TH gets even more useless if it means it will stop being a roadblock to enhancing the job in active (as opposed to a passive TH) ways.

But this is SE, so ill get my head out of the clouds :P

Ill need to start parsing thf more often, but so far, i havent really been trounced badly on thf even by 'real' players, but ive been mostly on drg lately living up my flashy mythic :P Ill give thf a go a little more often against the guys I compare my super drg against and see if I just have a rosy memory or if im actually doin as well as i think i am.

I gotta say though, culverin last stand builds on Thf/War are REALLY impressive. Ive beaten more than a couple 'good' DDs in VW using that. It fixes our weak WS issue when you can plast off a culverin/cannon shell powered last stand without the need for SATA whenever you want from any angle, or even from range :P But thats a niche (albeit expensive) build I made because it sounded fun, and boy is it xD

[Karbuncle]

I usually parse top 3 In Voidwatch Pick up groups, Even against Ukon Wars, Made me pretty happy. but then i parsed myself against a real DD on Ig-Alima. 2 WAR From my LS, They both parsed around 28%, I parsed about 8%, Sure, i came in 3rd, But still. The power difference was noticeable.

Then again they were in the DD party (COR/BRD buffs), and i wasn't... and Ig-alima is particularly annoying, but still!

Just shows what a real good Fully buffed WAR can do against an unbuffed THF

[Jomen]

I do see the merit for the want to increase damage on dagger based weapons. For a job that is about swinging (mostly) as their main source of damage, a buff to dps would be the acceptable route. Higher base dmg, higher critical damage, higher wses (to manage hate) =win.

I don't play thf btw, but this thread is probably the most intelligently thought out one I've seen so far. Very good arguments for the merits for this increase. And great ideas when it comes to new enmity tools as well as how to make TH useful for events that don't have drop rates affected by them.

I would really love to know exactly how TH works though. Maybe a dev will release some info soon.

[Fupafighter]

We don't need it lol. We do enough with all the delay down and double/triple attack we get.

[Fupafighter]

Id like to pretend that as TH usefulness is lessened, the reason why we didnt get subtle blow "Thf already has TH so we decided not to give thf SB in combination with DW" also wanes. Im tired of the "Thf has TH so you cant have nice things" BARANCE SE has gone for lately. I kinda wish TH gets even more useless if it means it will stop being a roadblock to enhancing the job in active (as opposed to a passive TH) ways.

But this is SE, so ill get my head out of the clouds :P

Ill need to start parsing thf more often, but so far, i havent really been trounced badly on thf even by 'real' players, but ive been mostly on drg lately living up my flashy mythic :P Ill give thf a go a little more often against the guys I compare my super drg against and see if I just have a rosy memory or if im actually doin as well as i think i am.

I gotta say though, culverin last stand builds on Thf/War are REALLY impressive. Ive beaten more than a couple 'good' DDs in VW using that. It fixes our weak WS issue when you can plast off a culverin/cannon shell powered last stand without the need for SATA whenever you want from any angle, or even from range :P But thats a niche (albeit expensive) build I made because it sounded fun, and boy is it xD

Thf does need some damage boosts or something lol. DNC just poops all over thf damage and I have proven that through killspeed in a month of dynamis lol. If they could get a little bit more triple attack or something >.<

[Laphine]

thf is already the job that multi hits the most. Adding more triple attack won't really help unless it's something meaningful, and given our history we will never have something like that. A recent example i can think of is triple attack damage. A very interesting stat for us, but still, SE keeps giving us stuff with silly values (3%, 2%).

[Fupafighter]

Dancer? My attack speed on dancer makes thf look just silly. Thf i think needs just weaponskill damage bonus or something to encourage using stacked ws.