Tachi: Shoha :: Don't panic, its the next greatest thing since sliced bread!

[saevel]

Actually, I have done some further testing, and come to the conclusion that Tachi: Shoha is not completely broken - it puts SAM on par with an Ukon WAR or relic ranger. Initial wtf fasctor was an oddball occurence, though I still think it shouldn't be powerful enough to compete with an ukko's fury WAR or relic DDs.

Considering how bad Fudo is, what other option would you have? Kaiten doesn't even approach Fudo's power, and Fudo doesn't touch UF and the rest of the crit emp WS's. Shoha is just a super Gekko. It has the same properties as Gekko did in the past, it's something you spam on high defense monsters. What you should be worrying about is Stardiver. It has the potential to beat out Shoha, provided the SAM is buffed enough.

[Brolic]

Here's your smn fix right here, give them yojimbo. and make his bp Tachi: Shoha.

[Aeyliea]

Stardiver I have not seen anything exciting from, Drakesbane is ALWAYS a better option if you don't suck ass.

And yeah, Fudo doesn't beat UF in spike damage, but you neglect to mention the fact that SAMs can pop more than one Fudo in the time it takes a WAR to do one UF. Same principle for SHoha; its WS speed plus WS damage thats an issue still, and it will not be an issue until UF gets its nerf, then Shoha will be best WS in game outside of Resolution with mighty strikes up

[Hayward]

Even at 2 merits, Tachi: Shoha is what every merited WS should be. Instead of taking Shoha down, I say bring every other WS on level terms (Especially Requiescat, which the devs should never have allowed to be released with that needless 20% attack penalty).

[Hyden]

How many 99Ukons have you compared Shoha's damage too? I'm guessing not a lot. a lvl 99 WS with a lvl 99 weapon is most likely gonna do more damage than a lvl 90. This doesn't see too mind blowing to me. Just sayin. Might wanna keep the linch mob at bay until you see some actual comparisons.

[Scribble]

Stardiver I have not seen anything exciting from, Drakesbane is ALWAYS a better option if you don't suck ass.

You a lie! DB is always a better option inside abyssea, but outside it's a toss up at least.

[hiko]

Stardiver I have not seen anything exciting from, Drakesbane is ALWAYS a better option if you don't suck ass.

And yeah, Fudo doesn't beat UF in spike damage, but you neglect to mention the fact that SAMs can pop more than one Fudo in the time it takes a WAR to do one UF. Same principle for SHoha; its WS speed plus WS damage thats an issue still, and it will not be an issue until UF gets its nerf, then Shoha will be best WS in game outside of Resolution with mighty strikes up

=>

No. Drakes matches Stardiver at (for the config I have set up) 43% crit rate. That's capped dDex crit rate plus merits plus 10% base weaponskill crit rate at 100 TP plus ~8% extra percent (gear and/or higher TP).

RR atma in Abyssea puts you at ~55% crit rate before figuring the weaponskill itself and the crit hit damage on top of that, so certainly Drakes wins there. Outside Abyssea, that's rather more difficult to achieve.

If you look purely at total fTP, Drakes is about 4.1 or 4.2 (gorget or gorget+belt) while Stardiver is about 0.95*4 = 3.8, maybe 3.88 with some extra TP. That puts Drakes 6%-10% ahead of Stardiver. On the other hand, Stardiver gets 100% str mod vs Drakes' 50%, which you can expect to yield roughly a 35% lead in total base damage. Drakes gets crits, but also gets attack penalty, and that's not an easy total effect to throw a number at, but overall it should be easily clear that Stardiver 'should' be stronger most of the time, and that you would need a pretty decent crit rate for Drakes to overtake it.


Shoha wins over Stardiver at less than 1.65 cRatio. I would expect it to similarly win over Drakes when under some cRatio value, though the exact value would depend on overall crit rate and such on Drakes. From the above, if you're at 43% crit rate than Shoha should win if cRatio is 1.65 or less, though the comparison of crit rate to attack bonus makes things a bit fuzzy.

(posted in TACTICS
Damage Dealing
Re: [dev1064] Job Adjustments: Weapon Skills

[Leylia]

I know you will critisize my response from the start because I am SAM myself and "live in denial" but in all honesty, I do not quite understand where all this "Tachi: Shoha is overpowered" talk comes from. Yes, it is a strong weaponskill and yes, in raw damage it even beats our Relic and Empyrean weaponskill. However Fudo -which is second in line now- (again only raw damage wise) wasn't the strongest weaponskills to start with. Still, Shoha can put out more than decent numbers but it also has its downsides, which many do not want to see.

SC properties: Yes, the SC properties of Shoha aren't that great. Fragmentation/Compression, which is a punch in the face for Konzen-ittai lovers, because it will not generate a lv 3 SC like Gekko, Kasha, Kaiten or Fudo. Only a lvl 2 will come out of it and hence it will never be the best option to be used in combination with that job ability. Especially the combination of Konzen-ittai + Sekkanoki, which can create double light SCs Shoha will always fall short of Kaiten or Fudo and that by a large amount.
Even with only Sekkanoki up, it is questionable if Kasha -> Shoha will put out more damage than a simple Fudo -> Fudo would do, due to the fact that Kasha isn't as powerful as Fudo. It becomes even more apparent when duoing when Fudo is able to either make Light or Darkness Skillchains, no matter what weapon your partner is using, same thing in small groups where it actually is possible to SC properly without too long waiting times and barely any TP loss from waiting.

Aftermath: Yes, believe it or not, even Samurais profit from the aftermath a empyrean weapon bestows upon usage of the weaponskill. Due to the low amount of hits required for 100%TP maybe not as much as other jobs, but it sure as hell does. At a chance of 30% ODD it will statistically at least happen once if not more often, which easily ends up generating 600 damage or even more during your TP phase over a TP phase without aftermath, and yes, Shoha doesn't induce aftermath effects. So every few weaponskills you are bound to use another WS further "taking away" from Shoha.

Relation to other weapons: I cannot show parses since I do not use additional programs for FFXI but several people of my group do parse quite often when we do VW and never, I mean really NEVER has a Samurai (not only me) outparsed our warrior, and no, they (we) are not shitty Samurais, they (we) know how to play the job and how to gear it. So, if Shoha is so ridiculously broken, how can this warrior still maintain a higher damage than we do?

Again, I agree, Shoha is pretty strong and maybe one of the best WSs ingame, I however do not agree with it being overpowered.

[Kiroh]

I'm sorry, Shoha is the type of damage ALL JOBS SHOULD BE DEALING AT 99! I don't understand what is so difficult to understand about dealing more damage at 99 then at 75, what part of 24 levels higher do you not understand?

The real answer is that SE needs to stop basing everyone else's damage around competing with weaponskills at the 75 cap and join the rest of us here in 2012.

As for people arguing shoha is too strong in comparison to other SAM WSs, if you have better gear you're still going to do more damage the the AH SAM's shoha, chill the **** out.

[darkhorror]

Stardiver I have not seen anything exciting from, Drakesbane is ALWAYS a better option if you don't suck ass.

Really.... Do you have anything to back that up?
Given gear for the ws's Stardiver has a 100% str mod, with 4 hits, 3.8 ftp at 100%, 4.175 at 200% and 4.55 at 300%. and when used you lower the mobs crit def by 5%.

For Drakesbane a 50% str mod, 4.0 ftp at all percentage, crit+10, 25, 40 at tp%, attack penalty of .8125.

drakes only has 5% more ftp at 100%, and lower after that. Drakes has at least 33% less base damage than stardiver given you have decent str+ gear. So at worst stardiver is about 28% head at 100% tp. Then with the attack penality even crit's dont add that much damage as they would have without it, plus the percentage of crits outside of abyssea isn't going to be very good outside of abyssea.

If you do the math you will see that stardiver is quite a bit better than drakesbane outside of abyssea.