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Thread: WHM/RDM

  1. #21
    Player Babekeke's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Windurst
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economizer View Post
    For those off topic BLM mains:

    Haste (15%) + Fast Cast (7.5%) > Dark Arts (10%). But if you aren't solo, you should probably have someone casting Haste on you.

    Something nobody has mentioned is that /SCH gives access to weather spells and Klimaform as well. That means more accuracy for your spells and if you have the right gear (Obi + Twilight Cape) you get a 15% multiplicative (with your bonus from your staves) bonus to your nukes (all except thunder, dark and light based spells). That said, for Black Mage main, the choice isn't as cut and dry as White Mage main - sub job choices will be more situational by far.
    /RDM for solo for haste, gravity and phalanx. /SCH in a party is good if someone will cast haste on you. Marches DO stack with haste spell and gear and fast cast/arts for timer reduction. I use haste gear on BLM for drain, aspir and stun. On WHM just for flash and haste cycles.

    Only dual wield and martial arts are multiplicative and that's obviously for meleeing, not recasts.
    (0)

  2. #22
    Player shaduf's Avatar
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    Jan 2012
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    41
    Character
    Shaduf
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    For me /SCH is way much better for me because as follow,

    1-Light Arts gives many benefits which are:

    -Reduce the Cost, Casting and Recasting of all white magic by 10%.

    -Instantly gives you Divine, Healing, Enhancing and Enfeebling magic to B+ Rank “you don’t’ need to level them with /SCH”. For example it will help you easily to land repose on mobs. A mob which is hard or immune to sleep dark type like the soulflyers. And will greatly enhance landing other debuffs like Slow, Silence and Paralyze. Nowadays in Abyssea with the high leveling rate and low in skilling, this ability solve this problem.

    -Access to Penury which reduce cost of MP 50% for your next spell. This thing really really save A LOT of MP for you, try always to cast Cure V or Cure VI with Penury as much as you can. A Single use of this ability will allow you to save 130MP for casting Curaga IV. It gives you 2 charges every 4 minutes. You might say it’s long time but believe me it is a HUGE save for your MP.

    2-Sublimation.
    -Sublimation is some form of Refresh. However it drains your HP and transfers it to your MP. Refresh gives you 3MP/tic Sublimation 2MP/tic. In my opinion, Sublimations is better than refresh . Couse it does not have casting time nor does it cost you 40MP each time you cast. I know Sublimation wont’ allow you to /rest but you can have Stone skin. And one more thing about Sublimation is that it gives you some form of poison so it will always wake you up if you got sleep. Thus as long as you have sublimation active you are immune to sleep. You might say that dot of Sublimation is 2/ tic and WHM have regen 2hp/tic WHM wont’ face any reduction in HP, however it will STILL wake you up!

    3-/SCH has Aspire.
    -Each 1 minute you can change to Dark Arts and swap back to Light Art for Aspire. Your Aspire will drain good amount of MP Couse you will have a B+ Rank in Dark magic. Each minute you can aspire for nearly 80~ 130MP is a huge save for your MP pool. Of course that’s when you fight a mob which have MP. You can do this with a Single Macro for example:
    -/ja “Dark Arts” <me> <wait 1>
    -/equip main “dark staff”
    -/ma “Aspire” <t> <wait 5>
    -/ja “Light Art” <me>
    -/equip Main “Light Staff”


    4-Conserve MP.
    -All of you I think know what does this Ability do ^^. This ability helps you to even save more MP.

    There are other things that /SCH have, which is like Accession, Celerity, Helix. However these things I mentioned really help the WHM to save tons and tons of MP.

    My first job was a WHM, Years ago when i leveled WHM to 75. I was really sad when I realize that i found out WHM can hardly survive in parties without any RDM or BRD to refresh him. And sometimes I can’t land debuffs because of my “C” Rank enfeebling Skill. However with the introduction of the new job SCH. It changed the life of WHM so positively.
    Some of you said that SCH is abet complicated job. It is true. For the first time you might find the job complicated. However. Once you find out how it works. You will love the /SCH
    BTW in Abyssea MP is not an issue anymore that goes even the same with the Magic accuracy. Because of the ATMA and the so many Temporary Items available in Abyssea. However in outside places like Dynamis if you used the /SCH in a proper way, I grantee you that you will never need to /rest anymore . and you will have plenty of MP.
    (0)
    Last edited by shaduf; 01-09-2012 at 05:34 PM.

  3. #23
    Player Daniel_Hatcher's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    San d'Oria
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    2,577
    Character
    Alvian
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 12
    Quote Originally Posted by shaduf View Post
    For me /SCH is way much better for me because as follow,

    1-Light Arts gives many benefits which are:

    -Reduce the Cost, Casting and Recasting of all white magic by 10%.

    -Instantly gives you Divine, Healing, Enhancing and Enfeebling magic to B+ Rank “you don’t’ need to level them with /SCH”. For example it will help you easily to land repose on mobs. A mob which is hard or immune to sleep dark type like the soulflyers. And will greatly enhance landing other debuffs like Slow, Silence and Paralyze. Nowadays in Abyssea with the high leveling rate and low in skilling, this ability solve this problem.

    -Access to Penury which reduce cost of MP 50% for your next spell. This thing really really save A LOT of MP for you, try always to cast Cure V or Cure VI with Penury as much as you can. A Single use of this ability will allow you to save 130MP for casting Curaga IV. It gives you 2 charges every 4 minutes. You might say it’s long time but believe me it is a HUGE save for your MP.

    2-Sublimation.
    -Sublimation is some form of Refresh. However it drains your HP and transfers it to your MP. Refresh gives you 3MP/tic Sublimation 2MP/tic. In my opinion, Sublimations is better than refresh . Couse it does not have casting time nor does it cost you 40MP each time you cast. I know Sublimation wont’ allow you to /rest but you can have Stone skin. And one more thing about Sublimation is that it gives you some form of poison so it will always wake you up if you got sleep. Thus as long as you have sublimation active you are immune to sleep. You might say that dot of Sublimation is 2/ tic and WHM have regen 2hp/tic WHM wont’ face any reduction in HP, however it will STILL wake you up!

    3-/SCH has Aspire.
    -Each 1 minute you can change to Dark Arts and swap back to Light Art for Aspire. Your Aspire will drain good amount of MP Couse you will have a B+ Rank in Dark magic. Each minute you can aspire for nearly 80~ 130MP is a huge save for your MP pool. Of course that’s when you fight a mob which have MP. You can do this with a Single Macro for example:
    -/ja “Dark Arts” <me> <wait 1>
    -/equip main “dark staff”
    -/ma “Aspire” <t> <wait 5>
    -/ja “Light Art” <me>
    -/equip Main “Light Staff”


    4-Conserve MP.
    -All of you I think know what does this Ability do ^^. This ability helps you to even save more MP.

    There are other things that /SCH have, which is like Accession, Celerity, Helix. However these things I mentioned really help the WHM to save tons and tons of MP.

    My first job was a WHM, Years ago when i leveled WHM to 75. I was really sad when I realize that i found out WHM can hardly survive in parties without any RDM or BRD to refresh him. And sometimes I can’t land debuffs because of my “C” Rank enfeebling Skill. However with the introduction of the new job SCH. It changed the life of WHM so positively.
    Some of you said that SCH is abet complicated job. It is true. For the first time you might find the job complicated. However. Once you find out how it works. You will love the /SCH
    BTW in Abyssea MP is not an issue anymore that goes even the same with the Magic accuracy. Because of the ATMA and the so many Temporary Items available in Abyssea. However in outside places like Dynamis if you used the /SCH in a proper way, I grantee you that you will never need to /rest anymore . and you will have plenty of MP.
    A few things:

    1. Sublimation at lvl.90+ is 2HP for 3MP so is the same as Refresh, minus the fact you don't get the MP back instantly every tic.
    2. It's Aspir, a macro with Aspire wont work.
    (0)

  4. #24
    Player shaduf's Avatar
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    Character
    Shaduf
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    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    -_- didnt notice about Aspir mistake.
    And sorry in advance Cause English isnt my first language ><
    (0)

  5. #25
    Player Tsukino_Kaji's Avatar
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    Character
    Tsukinokaji
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by shaduf View Post
    -_- didnt notice about Aspir mistake.
    And sorry in advance Cause English isnt my first language ><
    No excuses!
    Rdm has it's benefits too, I am a /sch advocate though. I never bothered to look at how much fast cast you get @99 now, but rdm get's you MP instantly where as /sch gets it to you "over time."
    (0)

  6. #26
    Player Daniel_Hatcher's Avatar
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    San d'Oria
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    Character
    Alvian
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 12
    Quote Originally Posted by shaduf View Post
    -_- didnt notice about Aspir mistake.
    And sorry in advance Cause English isnt my first language ><
    No issue, just if a newbie shows up don't want them incorrectly naming Aspir.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji View Post
    No excuses!
    Rdm has it's benefits too, I am a /sch advocate though. I never bothered to look at how much fast cast you get @99 now, but rdm get's you MP instantly where as /sch gets it to you "over time."
    Hasn't changed since 75. Still 15% Casting time - 7.5% Recast
    (1)

  7. #27
    Player Economizer's Avatar
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    Jun 2011
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    Character
    Thelaughingman
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by shaduf View Post
    This thing really really save A LOT of MP for you, try always to cast Cure V or Cure VI with Penury as much as you can.
    Ideally, avoid casting Cure VI as much as possible. It is an absolute waste of MP and should only be used in emergencies or if the White Mage is being incredibly lazy in very high refresh situations such as Abyssea. Personally, my best day as a White Mage is one where I never have to cast Cure VI.

    Quote Originally Posted by shaduf View Post
    I know Sublimation wont’ allow you to /rest but you can have Stone skin. And one more thing about Sublimation is that it gives you some form of poison so it will always wake you up if you got sleep.
    Stoneskin + Sublimation is nice when you have the time to cast Stoneskin. I try not to rely on Sublimation to block sleep however because you never know when your charge could finish, but it is very handy for avoiding sleep in many situations (although certain mobs do high damage then sleep you in one move these days, which kills the charge), so I can't lie and say I haven't relied on it a tad at times. The only bad thing about Sublimation is that it doesn't stack with Refresh I/II from a Red Mage, which can lead to them casting on you with no warning to find you have your charge up.

    -

    And don't worry too much about spelling mistakes or mistakes in general. You aren't maliciously posting or saying anything wrong so we'd have to be real jerks to be mean about it. People just like to help correct spelling a bit zealously on the Internet.
    (0)

  8. #28
    Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    Bastok
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    126

    This should be fun.

    As someone who has quite a distaste against WHM/RDM, my opinions here may be way too biased towards /SCH, but they're that way for a reason. Saying that from the get go, and I'm only going to cover the subs I've commonly seen a back-line White Mage use.

    Black Mage

    Before I even start with /RDM I am going to comment on /BLM. Support jobs are meant to enhance your main job. Back before Scholar was created, this was either /Black Mage or /Summoner. Warp is not a valid excuse to /BLM (neither is Warp II), it does nothing to help your main job. It's a convenience spell, similar to teleports. At this time in the game, the only valid reasons to /BLM are Stun or Sleepga, aka: spells that are helpful in situations that justify it. That's it. MAYBE Tractor outside of Abyssea, meh. Moving on.

    As for convenience spells, I say [Instant Warp], [Warp Cudgel] [Do you have it?]... It's really that simple. Then again, I've developed the habit of having those on me, so I have my own point of view on it.

    If you intend to use Stun, or Sleepga when the situation arises, it's fine to use the support job.

    Red Mage

    Oh boy, this is the touchy one with me. Maybe it's because of the fact BOTH VW and Abyssea require Wings of the Goddess, meaning ANYONE that does either event is capable of a) unlocking Scholar and b) leveling it and c) subbing it like they should be. I see nearly no reason to ever use this support job, it offers nothing unique to White Mage that actually helps it out. It's a MP battery support job, and a darn good one... Scholar still beats it. Its only niche is 5% extra Fast Cast, something I definitely don't consider vs. /SCH's overall usefulness. One may say you get MP immediately using Refresh+Convert, that's true. However, I like being able to save my overall MP and use it more efficiently before I even run into a problem like that, something /RDM isn't even good for (and what /SCH is capable of).

    Okay, maybe there's one perk... easier access to Dispel. /SCH requires Dark Arts and Addendum: Black used before you can even cast it.

    Short summary: If you /RDM when you can /SCH, I don't know what to say. My "Huh!?" moment is when I see WHM subbing SCH in VW JUST for the helix spells (Yes, I've seen a few. Before they lowered the levels on them, these WHM were ALWAYS /RDM), because it shows they don't use the support job frequently and don't see what's so good about it.

    Now for the nice part of my post...

    Scholar

    Easily, by far, the best support job. /SCH does what a support job is supposed to do for mages, directly enhancing their ability via usage of Light/Dark Arts. Each arts lowers MP cost and casting time by 10% for their respective magic while bumping skills up to at least B+ ranking, effectively buffing not only your casting ability, but your efficiency with magic skills if they aren't up to date (some are buffed regardless: Enfeebling and Enhancing magic).

    Penury/Parsimony lower the MP cost of the spell by 50% of its natural cost, not 50% more (to -60%). Conserve MP, the other perk of /BLM back in the day, also applies to /SCH, and it can stack on top of Penury/Parsimony. Celerity/Alacrity do the same to casting time, reducing casting time and recast time both by 50%. Accession makes certain spells AoE'able, and Manifestation can be used with Aspir for interesting MP returns when the situation would arise.

    Sublimation is nice too, effectively the same as Refresh @ Lv90+. The only difference is it's stored over time vs. getting the MP right away, but if your MP is full Refresh's essentially wasted while Sublimation is not.

    Basically, once I used /SCH, I was glued to it. The level cap increases haven't changed a thing - they've only made /RDM more of a viable option then it was at level 75 (essentially worthless).

    You also shouldn't /SCH just because you gain helix spells for VW.

    Summary of my entire post: /SCH is the best, it's that simple, it offers the most to the job and it should never be overlooked.
    (0)
    WAR, WHM, BLM, RDM, DRK, BRD, SMN, BLU, SCH, GEO, RUN 99

  9. #29
    Player Zarchery's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    1,412
    Character
    Zarchery
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    I've been meaning to level SCH sub, but I just haven't taken the time to figure out how the job works. I levelled it to 30 just for the job emote, so there's not TOO much further to go to get it up to 50 (yeah I know the cap for subjobs is 49, but I like to get my subjobs to 50 because it's a nice round number). Just to show you how clueless I am about SCH, I levelled it to 30 (totally solo BTW) by subbing BST and charming stuff, basically acting like a second rate Beastmaster.

    I do RDM sub anywhere outside Abyssea, or in anything in Abyssea that's gonna require Dispel or might be remotely challenging.
    (0)

  10. #30
    Player Economizer's Avatar
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    Character
    Thelaughingman
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Fredjan View Post
    As for convenience spells, I say [Instant Warp], [Warp Cudgel] [Do you have it?]... It's really that simple. Then again, I've developed the habit of having those on me, so I have my own point of view on it.
    I don't even bother. Teleport-Mea/Dem/Holla and use the book warp... It isn't hard to get tabs and they cap out at 50k anyways so it works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredjan View Post
    Okay, maybe there's one perk... easier access to Dispel. /SCH requires Dark Arts and Addendum: Black used before you can even cast it.
    Easier access to Sleep, and you get Sleep II, Ice Spikes, and Phalanx without throwing away the more sustainable MP pool that Red Mage or Scholar have. Very situational but useful regardless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredjan View Post
    You also shouldn't /SCH just because you gain helix spells for VW.
    Another perk that isn't one you should sub it for, but a nice bonus anyways - Dark Arts not only boosts your Aspir/Drain spells but it also allows you to use a Twilight Cloak more effectively... probably the best nuke White Mage gets.
    (1)

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