Dragoon Updates!

[brayen]

Antidotes and holy waters are also easily carried and yet they have chosen to include remove breaths for those ailments. Not a good argument.

A dead drg from inability to heal breath does not do damage, nor does he stand face to face with the monster. This is at least as good a reason to include remove silence as it is to include remove poison, which apparently is totally ok.

you clearly didn't catch my argument it seems. it is not weather or not antidotes can also be bought, hell remove poison from the list if u want doesn't matter, my point was if you are going to make an argument over an easily pointless breath such as silence <or poison> i would suggest making a better case by arguing for remove slow or bio etc, actual status ailments that hinder a drg's melee capabilities as you are still requesting additional work to be put in, might as well make it on the more valuable (melee oriented)stuff: para, slow, bio, plague, doom, blind...etc(yes i know some of these are covered already just categorizing the ones that should be blatantly obvious as better ones), i hope you get my point now, if you still do not then i will not bother to discuss this further.

[dpdhuntress]

I'm not sure I understand this. Both BST and SMN, by modern practice, freely control all aspects of their pets. And even with that, if you just adjust Smiting Breath into a shared timer between the various elements, there's still plenty of aspects of the wyverns that are not freely controlled.

Couldnt say it any better. It seems when VW first came out smn, pup and bst had the issue of haveing no clue what avatar or pet to use. Now they got it easier. Theres nothing game changing wyvern has a handful of elemental breaths. It makes no sense to create something with a purpose but not allowing it to happen. Like a maze with no exit or sending someone to war with a gun but no bullets. Makes no sense to leave broken. Its laziness

[idx1]

Not sure if this was mentioned earlier.

But what of the issue of when healing breath is interrupted when the mob targeted by the wyvern dies mid-charge?
Shouldn't it uh, reset the timer back or something.

Same thing with Blood Pacts.
Though I'm not sure if that was fixed with SMN, as I quit that job mainly because of that issue.

[Ophannus]

The weakness dragoon experience isn't on weak VW like T1-4 stuff like Akvan or Lancing Lemorak, can still get 2kish on them its on relevant level 99 content like Kalasutrax/Ig-Alima and Botolus Rex. Granted Botolus has damage resistence but still in comparison to WAR and SAM, my Stardivers are doing like 20(yes) to 700ish whereas WAR and SAM can still hit over 1.5k, same with Ig-Alima and Kalasutrax.

[Dragoon9]

honestly as a DRG of 2 straight years (others probably longer) glad they are updating DRG, however, reading this thread and seeing some pointless arguments about the healing breaths, silence is not that deadly to a DRG/mage, you still have the ablilty restoring breath to heal yourself and if you need an extra bit of time you have super jump, another thing is that DRG is suppose to be the most melee accurate job, we hit the enemy more times then any other job, so pretty much we deal just as much damage as a War or Sam, plus we have a plethora of ways to survive in battle if you take the time to think about it. DRG are DD's yet are also damn good at surviving a battle without relying too much on their mage subjob, i honestly don't even use my spells anymore aside from dia to claim a monster.

I'm a DRG/WHM full time and even as that i prove to be a force to be reckoned with with little spell casting and more planning for the battle. its not the stats that make the DRG its how the player uses their job. formula's and equations are interesting to look at but they don't help much in how a player goes about their DRG job with her/his friends or solo, when your in battle your thinking about how to win not numbers.

[Rekin]

Dragoon9 have you even done VW at all? or fought anything with a shred of decent defense? Dragoon's acc means squat if every melee is capping acc from buffs/temps but the difference between war/drk/sam/mnk and drg is that they have means to increase their attack to actually do worthwhile damage against higher tiered mobs. Dragoon can heal itself and others, but that is a moot point when other jobs can do it more better and with less restrictions. Along with dragoon's inability to increase its own attack is that our primer ws until recently had an attack PENALTY of 20%. Not only does drg not have a means to increase its attack directly like war/drk/sam/mnk but it gets penalties to it's prime ws. With Stardiver now being around we no longer suffer that attack penalty but still fall significantly behind due to lack of attack.

Ex. if a sam and a drg both have 999 attack the sam will easily out parse the drg because first hit of wses have an acc. bonus but also shoha has an attack BONUS making it easier for them to do consistent and good damage. The drg however only has that 999 attack to fall back on for Stardiver which does not get an attack bonus and is 4 hits meaning it has more chances to not reach its full damage potential. If both are reaching acc cap the sam has only a 10% chance of one or both hits of shoha missing but even then it has Zanshin. Drg however has 20% chance of one of the 4 hits to miss and thus loose 25% dmg potential of Stardiver if even 1 hit misses. I say this because Stardiver's fTP is equal to the first hit in all hits unlike most multihit wses.

[Dragoon9]

i have done VW Rekin no need to get hostile. i am well aware of the numbers against DRG as well as the numbers with DRG, i'm just stating an opinion

[Doppel]

always thought drg should have a ignore def job trait

[Ophannus]

*Fires up the Motenten signal* Mot! Can you run your gizmos and mathology and see if a DRG/WAR with a 6 hit build and WS+10% Lance and Misers/Tacticians roll will outparse a DRG/SAM with a 5 hit OAT build with the same rolls in VW? I'm betting that in circumstances where we get 50-60% TP back from Stardiver due to Miser's plus monarch's drink and tact roll that /WAR might pull ahead and the +10% WS damage could theoretically add 150-230+ damage to Stardiver. Hasso's bonus would be less noticable if our WS:Regular hit ratio is skewed heavily in favor of WS due to craptons of SaveTP.
Save TP+25 on XI Roll and +20 from Dicipline. Should be ~60-65ish back on Stardiver with on average 7 regain from Monarchs+XI Tact roll(add 2 for total of 9 with 2nd atmacite being the +2 Regain one)

Sixgill: DMG126 Delay492 WS Damage+10%
Chauve-Souris: DMG110 Delay507 Occasionally Attacks Twice

I'm willing to bet that under the conditions of temp items, atmacite and good COR rolls, DRG/WAR will outparse DRG/SAM due to having Berserk(which is what we really need) and that hasso/sekkanoki/meditate do less in these short 5-6min fights than Berserk/Warcry/Aggressor/+10% DA might

[Silkavenger]

@orphannus I was thinking the same thing myself. When TP and damage mitigation items are overflowing the benefits of /Sam are really diminished. I hate to drop to a 6-hit, but I'm pretty sure under the circumstances /war is gonna do a lot better. I'll give it a go next time.