Welcome Back Tanaka !

[Ravenmore]

Yes I did mean PvE was going to go with a differant way saying it wasn't PvP but change my mind and mis-type.

Franky we tried the wait and see and the postive feed back. Now its time they know how digusted we are with them. They as a comapny need to be punished which looking at thier recent decline in sells they are feeling the pain but are just to stuck in their ways to change. Also its is the whole player base that is pissed look at the jps they saying the same things as us. The sells in Japan of FF13-2 only hit about 500k the first week while 13 did twice that on the first day. FF14 has around 30k player and its free. There is no hope for that game its is DEAD yet they will keep throwing the money we pay for FF11 at it.

People are pisssed cause we are still paying the same price we were when we were getting more content. Comapnies don't listen to nice well happy time compaints they listen when the outrage becomes defaning and they can't look the other way

[Potyhoty]

I think the majority of people on this board are angry because they feel they are being ignored by the very people who are supposed to be listening to them. We are their paying customers, and they should be trying to please at least 51% of us.

Not that you asked me, but I would add that I feel it's deeply arrogant for this person or that person to assume they're in that 51% just because they're right and a bunch of people IN THEIR SUBCOMMUNITY (aka the forums) agree with them. They may well be, of course, but in my view even that doesn't justify the vitriol they're spewing.

Franky we tried the wait and see and the postive feed back. Now its time they know how digusted we are with them. They as a comapny need to be punished which looking at thier recent decline in sells they are feeling the pain but are just to stuck in their ways to change.

Yeah, that's certainly a plausible explanation. There are others, though, but I'm not talking politics on here.

Also its is the whole player base that is pissed look at the jps they saying the same things as us.

*headdesk* False. The people on the forums, any forums, JP or NA or EU or all together, are NOT the whole player base.

The sells in Japan of FF13-2 only hit about 500k the first week while 13 did twice that on the first day. FF14 has around 30k player and its free. There is no hope for that game its is DEAD yet they will keep throwing the money we pay for FF11 at it.

Yeah, there was a substantial contigent of people who didn't like FFXIII. Most of my friends didn't, I'm kinda lukewarm on it myself. But hype sold FFXIII, not content.

And you don't know FFXIV is dead. I don't know it's dead. Stop armchair CEOing, it makes you look like an idiot. Yeah, it probably is, but that's not your call, and this kind of behavior helps nothing.

People are pisssed cause we are still paying the same price we were when we were getting more content. Comapnies don't listen to nice well happy time compaints they listen when the outrage becomes defaning and they can't look the other way

And you think a vocal minority getting REALLY pissy on feedback forums = "outrage"? No, you have to be able to speak for the people NOT on the forums, at least most of them. How do you intend to do that? Because you don't have the credentials to claim to know what they want. None of us do.

And there are plenty of companies that listen to nice happy time complaints. Those complaints, though, actually have to reflect a majority of the user base. If that isn't there, it doesn't really matter what the complaints sound like, they will (usually) be given attention proportional to the number of people complaining, which all in all, isn't that large, despite what all of you seem to think.

Now, SE might not work that way, but most companies do. Point is, it's incredibly arrogant to say "Well, most of the people on the forums feel this way, therefore we ARE the majority of the player base!". No, you're not.

Besides, they do things differently in Japan, you know? Even the bottom line often isn't enough over there, not if they would lose more face in the eyes of their investors (NOT the paying public) by caving than they would by staying the course. And outrage from a vocal minority of the player base, no matter how right it is, =/= losing face in the eyes of their investors.

[Ravenmore]

Its not just people agreeing its all over every single Forum for FF11. Then there is the fact that the last project Tanaka worked on was a such a failure that the company admitted it was. While I don't hold him solely to blame he is a symtom of the poison that has set in at SE.

[Potyhoty]

Its not just people agreeing its all over every single Forum for FF11.

...You're not much for reading comprehension, are you? THE FORUMS, EVEN ALL OF THEM TAKEN TOGETHER ARE NOT THE PLAYER BASE, NOT EVEN CLOSE. There's a HUGE self-selection bias there.

Then there is the fact that the last project Tanaka worked on was a such a failure that the company admitted it was. While I don't hold him solely to blame he is a symtom of the poison that has set in at SE.

That I agree with, to some extent at least.

[Ravenmore]

Yes the forums do repersent the player base just like polls can any large group of people. People are voting with their money. For any Final Fantasy tilte to do that bad in Japan its a sign of decay. I have seen what happens when owners don't listen to what the customers want.

[Potyhoty]

Yes the forums do repersent the player base just like polls can any large group of people.

*facepalm* No, no, no. The forums are a very small sample size with, like I said, a HUGE self-selection bias. Any pollster worth their salt would NOT draw conclusions based on a poll that covered even 10% of the player base, to say nothing of the other methodological problems involved. Not to mention that there's no confidence interval or anything. Really careless. Please learn some stats or at least experimental design before you start shooting off at the mouth about that.

Yeah, FFXIII-2 is a sign of decay. There was also a recession and a tsunami, which would have had their long-term effects too. Deciding that this is all about "not listening to the customer" is fundamentally arrogant and misguided. Not saying it's a bad theory, but CONCLUDING IT based on this fragmentary evidence is a bad idea.

[Alerith]

[IMG][/IMG]

[Ravenmore]

*facepalm* No, no, no. The forums are a very small sample size with, like I said, a HUGE self-selection bias. Any pollster worth their salt would NOT draw conclusions based on a poll that covered even 10% of the player base, to say nothing of the other methodological problems involved. Not to mention that there's no confidence interval or anything. Really careless. Please learn some stats or at least experimental design before you start shooting off at the mouth about that.

Yeah, FFXIII-2 is a sign of decay. There was also a recession and a tsunami, which would have had their long-term effects too. Deciding that this is all about "not listening to the customer" is fundamentally arrogant and misguided. Not saying it's a bad theory, but CONCLUDING IT based on this evidence is a bad idea.

People will also be unwilling to waste their money on a comapy that is refuse to get with the times. far to long they have traded on name alone and the fact they sold over a millon copies of 14 and only 30k play it for free is another sign. They are now seeing that name alone has limits. Other people will just leave with out voicing thier reasons for dong so.

Something that SE should take time to add is a survay that is not a option when you cancel, a simple muti-chioce and a optional essay section.

[Potyhoty]

People will also be unwilling to waste their money on a comapy that is refuse to get with the times. far to long they have traded on name alone and the fact they sold over a millon copies of 14 and only 30k play it for free is another sign. They are now seeing that name alone has limits. Other people will just leave with out voicing thier reasons for dong so.

True enough.

Something that SE should take time to add is a survay that is not a option when you cancel, a simple muti-chioce and a optional essay section.

hmm. Yeah, I like the sounds of that. Not saying they'll do it, most people will probably be angry enough to just fill in whatever trolling comments they want, but it might be worthwhile if enough people cancel. Of course, then they'll have to deal with a bunch of whiners saying "I don't wanna" and calling SE to complain about it... but hey, you know? It might still be worth doing.

Nonetheless, there's still a self-selection bias because the people who don't quit don't have to fill out the survey, so the results are still skewed. That's why, in the science business, we say "The results support the hypothesis" or "The results fail to support the hypothesis", NEVER "The results PROVE the hypothesis".

[FrankReynolds]

*facepalm* No, no, no. The forums are a very small sample size with, like I said, a HUGE self-selection bias. Any pollster worth their salt would NOT draw conclusions based on a poll that covered even 10% of the player base, to say nothing of the other methodological problems involved. Not to mention that there's no confidence interval or anything. Really careless. Please learn some stats or at least experimental design before you start shooting off at the mouth about that.

Yeah, FFXIII-2 is a sign of decay. There was also a recession and a tsunami, which would have had their long-term effects too. Deciding that this is all about "not listening to the customer" is fundamentally arrogant and misguided. Not saying it's a bad theory, but CONCLUDING IT based on this fragmentary evidence is a bad idea.

So basically..... until SE shuts down the servers followed by a a mass firing of all Final Fantasy related staff members, and a formal apology citing their failure to listen to the wants of the customer base, backed up with their own statistics, and and pie chart for visual aid, you won't believe that the player base is pissed.

That's cool. Being as you have no statistical evidence to support your theory, and you are making statistical accuracy the point that you are arguing so vehemently in a forum almost entirely dedicated to how pissed people are... I'm gonna have to take everything you say as an attempt to provide misinformation. Just because people don't post on a forum doesn't mean that they don't feel the same way as the forum posters. Your attempting to make everyone believe that every person who does not post feels the same way that you do. However you don't represent the player base any more than the angry people do. Your argument is null and void.