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  1. #61
    Player Alderin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    367
    Character
    Alderin
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Dart View Post
    in regards to drk, you're speaking about it from a abyssea perspective, which isn't accurate. Apoc drk was one of the premier dd's in the game until abyssea came out. Please know what you're talking about!
    I never said DRK wasn't a solid DD - and yes the days of the DRK K.club zerg, and Apoc - they had their place.

    As far as "balance" is concerened, I am saying that there are 2x types of jobs. Hybrids and Specialists.

    Hybrids have more traits / abilities / flexibility. Can do many things but excel in none.
    Specialists have a single purpose. Can only really do one thing well.

    ie I will repeat.

    DRK can stun, absorb, drain, aspir, low tier nukes, while being able to deal reasonable damage.
    WAR can swing their weapon and hit stuff..

    Quote Originally Posted by Siiri View Post
    I am fine with there being a gap. I believe that with Ukko's the gap was way too large. If the gap is too large there is no point to bring any other job than war to an event with adequate support, except for procs. Procs is a garbage reason to bring a job, they should be able to be competitive in damage or they will always be left behind. I thought the balance between drk/war/drg was fine at 75. My group parsed einherjars at 75, a great war would almost always be 1st. Now on parses its just whoever has Ukkos. Sorry you need a broken weaponskill to beat a drk or drg. That is what Ukkos is and always has been, broken. SE just finally woke up.
    Ukko's and V.Smite is less broken then everyone seems to be making out. Only a few WAR's hit the really high numbers outside Abyssea. I was on RNG during a Kaggen run earlier today, we had 2x Ukons. I was on RNG with Gandiva and matched one of their dmg output in a parse on multiple kills. This is just one example.

    Quote Originally Posted by scaevola View Post
    When SAMs and DRKs can pursue a Tahrongi route to give Masa/Calad a weapon skill on par with Ukko's, this argument will be valid.

    (also, Redemption says shut the hell up, Donnie)
    Read the full thread before replying. Also not sure why your pulling the SAM card out. A well-geared Masa SAM was not far behind MNK at all pre-Shoha.
    (1)
    Last edited by Alderin; 12-28-2011 at 12:40 AM.

  2. #62
    Player Siiri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    233
    Character
    Siiri
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Alderin View Post
    I never said DRK wasn't a solid DD - and yes the days of the DRK K.club zerg, and Apoc - they had their place.

    As far as "balance" is concerened, I am saying that there are 2x types of jobs. Hybrids and Specialists.

    Hybrids have more traits / abilities / flexibility. Can do many things but excel in none.
    Specialists have a single purpose. Can only really do one thing well.

    ie I will repeat.

    DRK can stun, absorb, drain, aspir, low tier nukes, while being able to deal reasonable damage.
    WAR can swing their weapon and hit stuff..
    None of the drk abilities listed have any bearing on a group event, so if SE lets them fall too far behind they will not be invited to a group event. I guess maybe stun, but usually you have Blue mages stunning these days, and stun rotation was always part of a black mage task in a group event. So while your argument sounds good I guess, in reality if war is averaging 3k on Ukko's and DRK is averagin 1.5k on Quietus you not bringing a DRK ever except for procs. Especially since WAR has better xhit options and can cap haste easier without losing acc like DRKS, in addition to more offensive oriented job abilities and traits.

    Every time a DRK casts they lose a swing and fall further behind on parse. That being said, DRKs have asked for drk celerity, casting times to be reduced, worthwhile spells, if we ever got them maybe that big a gap would be justified. Just another failure of "balance" though by SE. Took the easy way out and nerfed Ukkos. Even in a duo most white mages would say just give me the war full out with retaliation, kill it a lot quicker than a DRK or DRG messing around with drains or jumps anway.
    (0)
    Last edited by Siiri; 12-28-2011 at 03:39 AM.

  3. #63
    Player Chriscoffey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    214
    Character
    Darkchris
    World
    Lakshmi
    Main Class
    DRK Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Siiri View Post
    None of the drk abilities listed have any bearing on a group event, so if SE lets them fall too far behind they will not be invited to a group event. I guess maybe stun, but usually you have Blue mages stunning these days, and stun rotation was always part of a black mage task in a group event. So while your argument sounds good I guess, in reality if war is averaging 3k on Ukko's and DRK is averagin 1.5k on Quietus you not bringing a DRK ever except for procs. Especially since WAR has better xhit options and can cap haste easier without losing acc like DRKS, in addition to more offensive oriented job abilities and traits.

    Every time a DRK casts they lose a swing and fall further behind on parse. That being said, DRKs have asked for drk celerity, casting times to be reduced, worthwhile spells, if we ever got them maybe that big a gap would be justified. Just another failure of "balance" though by SE. Took the easy way out and nerfed Ukkos. Even in a duo most white mages would say just give me the war full out with retaliation, kill it a lot quicker than a DRK or DRG messing around with drains or jumps anway.
    Exactly when dark as all the potential and none of the reasons to cast. This reasoning people have because its a "hybrid" floors me when they haven't taken the time to use the job to see how much casting effects the job or reasons too.
    (0)

  4. #64
    Player Brolic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    252
    Character
    Brolic
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Siiri View Post
    None of the drk abilities listed have any bearing on a group event, so if SE lets them fall too far behind they will not be invited to a group event. I guess maybe stun, but usually you have Blue mages stunning these days, and stun rotation was always part of a black mage task in a group event. So while your argument sounds good I guess, in reality if war is averaging 3k on Ukko's and DRK is averagin 1.5k on Quietus you not bringing a DRK ever except for procs. Especially since WAR has better xhit options and can cap haste easier without losing acc like DRKS, in addition to more offensive oriented job abilities and traits.

    Every time a DRK casts they lose a swing and fall further behind on parse. That being said, DRKs have asked for drk celerity, casting times to be reduced, worthwhile spells, if we ever got them maybe that big a gap would be justified. Just another failure of "balance" though by SE. Took the easy way out and nerfed Ukkos. Even in a duo most white mages would say just give me the war full out with retaliation, kill it a lot quicker than a DRK or DRG messing around with drains or jumps anway.
    when wars can bust out 900 cures for the cost of a bar-spell and solo tank any hmn in the game(yes i know they're far and few in between) with minimal support i'll agree that they should put out comparable numbers as drg and drk.

    mock them all you want but these hybrid jobs have uses, just because they're not smash and bash like mnk and war are doesn't meant they're not valid.

    more so nothing has changed, drgs and drks aren't being invited to kaggen to do anything other than proc, instead of 4 wars and 1 sam to proc people will just have 1 war to proc and 4 sams to dd tank.
    (1)

  5. #65
    Player scaevola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    726
    Character
    Scaevola
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Originalkord View Post
    Lmao...they really wouldn't.

    Again, the argument is that 3 WARs can kill anything. If they DID make EVERY DD on the same level (which if you've been reading I am NOT suggesting they do) then all they're doing is making it so that any combination of 3 DD can kill anything. Things won't suddenly becoming weaker just because you have a bigger variety of jobs--thats just silly logic.

    Had to back up, because this might actually be literally the dumbest thing I've ever read on these forums.

    Of COURSE buffing everybody while making no changes to mob strength means everything's weaker. "Strong" and "weak" are relative terms and the only measurement of this in this context is how difficult they are to kill; the only way "easier" doesn't mean "weaker" is if you think that, like, Raja floats around Grauberg lording it over all those poor magic pots.

    So yeah, buffing everybody means they either make current content stronger or write it off completely. The latter is actually more or less exactly what happened with the level cap increase to begin with.
    (0)
    Last edited by scaevola; 12-28-2011 at 11:39 PM.
    tandava crackows + chocobo jig + animated flourish = prouesse ring

  6. #66
    Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    206
    The truth about the melee classes in FFXI can be understood and decyphered by using the English Alphabet as a key. The code has been decyphered from Tanakanese and can now be understood by scientologists everywhere.
    Tom cruise had this to say
    "I do my own stunts"

    This breakthrough was discovered in waxing sun tan lotion of the year dragon's cornchip in kaka, by Prof. Pikachu of pokemon.


    (WAR) x ABC -Always be Crushing.
    (DRK) x DEF - Demonstrates emotional fragility.
    (SAM) x GHI - Give him/her it.
    (MNK) x JKL - Joking kung-fu license.
    (DRG) x MNO -Mercy, no, oh-no.
    (NIN) x PQR -Pew-pew, Q.Q, rasengan.
    (THF) x STU - Swing that uganda.
    (PUP) x V - Vagina
    (DNC) x W - wang. Wang. WAAANG
    (0)

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