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  1. #21
    Player Trangnai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    98
    Character
    Rivicus
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    The next nerf is gonna force all wars to de-level to 30 while sams get a buff to level 255
    (2)

  2. #22
    Player Insaniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,003
    Character
    Insaniak
    World
    Lakshmi
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Siiri View Post
    Yeah, I do voidwatch. I have helped organize a group that has most clears, and I have done the rest in pickups. You need other jobs for procs, but when it comes to win time the Ukkon wars push the Ohsh*t button with their 5k weaponskills and it is over. If you ever answer pickups they always ask, "how many ukon wars we have?" You can fill in proc jobs no problem, they are trash in comparison. I think a lot of other DDs want to be more than proc trash in comparision to the great almighty overpowered Ukon wars. Some of us like other jobs than war. War bores the ever living crap out of me.
    I've won dozens of level 95 VWs with 1 Ukon in 10 minutes or less. Any Relic/Emp/Mythic DD rips these things apart as long as you keep procing. I think you, like a ton of people, have an inflated idea of the power of an Ukon. They don't spam 5k WSs they spam 2k-3k WSs and occasionally blast out a beast. Yes Ukon WARs were easily #1 in DD power but it wasn't by some outrageous margin. Maybe a very slight nerf to the WS was in order but not a 15% crit rate cut.
    (4)
    ↓ Trolling sapling ↓

  3. #23
    Player Siiri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    233
    Character
    Siiri
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Insaniac View Post
    I've won dozens of level 95 VWs with 1 Ukon in 10 minutes or less. Any Relic/Emp/Mythic DD rips these things apart as long as you keep procing. I think you, like a ton of people, have an inflated idea of the power of an Ukon. They don't spam 5k WSs they spam 2k-3k WSs and occasionally blast out a beast. Yes Ukon WARs were easily #1 in DD power but it wasn't by some outrageous margin. Maybe a very slight nerf to the WS was in order but not a 15% crit rate cut.
    I am sure there is some truth in this. The reason the perception is out there though is mostly through players smack talk, posted parses, memes like "should have been a ukon" on the BG finished emp. thread. Also linkshell leaders disbanding at Qilin when the Ukon war leaves, shouting that they seeking a war only, etc. I believe a parse was shown recently where the Ukon war did 80% more damage than anyone else, the damage calculator that people use had war doing 50% more damage over drk a while ago, etc etc. Apparently someone in charge at SE had the same perception with this nerf.

    I do understand though that nerfs are not the way to go. It's stupid to do it after a year, should have been adjusted within a couple weeks of coming out, or other jobs brought up a bit in this past year. SE had numerous chances to even things out and all they did was buff the hell out of SAM, like the old days. This company has the worst sense of balance.
    (1)

  4. #24
    Player Vold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    891
    Character
    Voldermolt
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    15% is total murder. Hey who still wants to farm a lv95 and 99 Ukon? Step right up. I bet my raging rushes can beat my future Ukko's Fury damage. Well okay that might be pushing it, I don't know. I guess the aftermath is still pretty hot to be worth the effort.

    I'm all for balance even if it makes me weaker. I'm all about fair play. But not when butchering jobs are involved. This isn't a nerf. This is declared war on the warrior job. It just joined the club with KC DRK, RDM, and RNG as honorary members. MNK got hit with the WS nerf but how long before it catches more and joins the war club, too? I know for a fact SAM found the immunity idol so they're safe forever.

    Boy I'm so going to eat my words if they ever do dial SAM back.
    (3)


    Regular "John" Doe
    - Not on the Community Team

  5. #25
    Player Sonshou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    72
    Character
    Sonshou
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    DRG Lv 98
    Quote Originally Posted by Alderin View Post
    Alright, go kill your 2x nm's to kill 25x Carabosse's and 2x nm's to pop 25x CC's in 2x days while everyone spends weeks farming 10-13 NM's to pop 1x nm that drops 2x shells or buds. Then come back to me and talk about why Ukon and Vereth shouldn't out-do the rest.
    Base on that argument shouldn't Rhongomiant and Camlann's Torment be as strong as Verethragnr's V.Smite?
    (1)

  6. #26
    Player Insaniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,003
    Character
    Insaniak
    World
    Lakshmi
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Siiri View Post
    I am sure there is some truth in this. The reason the perception is out there though is mostly through players smack talk, posted parses, memes like "should have been a ukon" on the BG finished emp. thread. Also linkshell leaders disbanding at Qilin when the Ukon war leaves, shouting that they seeking a war only, etc. I believe a parse was shown recently where the Ukon war did 80% more damage than anyone else, the damage calculator that people use had war doing 50% more damage over drk a while ago, etc etc. Apparently someone in charge at SE had the same perception with this nerf.

    I do understand though that nerfs are not the way to go. It's stupid to do it after a year, should have been adjusted within a couple weeks of coming out, or other jobs brought up a bit in this past year. SE had numerous chances to even things out and all they did was buff the hell out of SAM, like the old days. This company has the worst sense of balance.
    People post those SSs and parses because they are extreme examples. If that WAR won by 80% it's because he didn't have to proc anything and everyone else did or that WAR was amazing and everyone else in the alliance was seriously terrible.
    (3)
    ↓ Trolling sapling ↓

  7. #27
    Player Siiri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    233
    Character
    Siiri
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonshou View Post
    Base on that argument shouldn't Rhongomiant and Camlann's Torment be as strong as Verethragnr's V.Smite?
    I made this same argument then they changed their minds that war was "special" and it should beat all DD by a "large margin".

    I also included Quietus in this.
    (0)
    Last edited by Siiri; 12-26-2011 at 10:11 AM.

  8. #28
    Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    2,169
    Quote Originally Posted by Vold View Post
    15% is total murder. Hey who still wants to farm a lv95 and 99 Ukon? Step right up. I bet my raging rushes can beat my future Ukko's Fury damage. Well okay that might be pushing it, I don't know. I guess the aftermath is still pretty hot to be worth the effort.

    I'm all for balance even if it makes me weaker. I'm all about fair play. But not when butchering jobs are involved. This isn't a nerf. This is declared war on the warrior job. It just joined the club with KC DRK, RDM, and RNG as honorary members. MNK got hit with the WS nerf but how long before it catches more and joins the war club, too? I know for a fact SAM found the immunity idol so they're safe forever.

    Boy I'm so going to eat my words if they ever do dial SAM back.
    Sadly, no, it wasn't so severe that Raging is going to beat Ukko's, like ever.

    It is pretty terrible, but not that bad.
    (1)

  9. #29
    Player Scribble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    171
    Ukko's is still well out in front of RR by more than 15%. Apparently Ukon now has latent effect: Convert molehill to mountain.

    Too much boo hoo for still having pew pew imo
    (0)

  10. #30
    Player Alderin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    367
    Character
    Alderin
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 99
    Twash - is powerful if used correctly. Stacking with SA / TA & DNC can force crit. It is also a single handed weapon so you cannot expect to push the same amount of damage with a dagger as you can a great axe.

    Redem - DRK has Cada, which can be farmed in much less time and deal quite a decent amount of damage. DRK is also a hybrid job, therefore should not excel in both abilities it has. (Deal damage & cast dark magic). Hybrids are good for more things, but excel in none.

    Rhol - DRG has Drakesbane - and pretty much every DRG will tell you they are happy with it. If you ask me, Calm Torm is the best option they could have given DRG. A Wheeling Thrust +1, especially with these heavy defence VW mobs @99, I am sure they would be pushing out some ok numbers. Drakesbane didn't need to be replaced in my opinion. Once again, they are also a hybrid (ability to DD, heal, support, shed hate etc). Once again, can do more stuff - but excels in none.

    Last thing, DRG / DRK's should have known what they were levelling into before levelling / playing it. DRK & DRG should never be as powerful as WAR or MNK as there needs to be a large difference between "hybrids" and "specialists".

    MNK & WAR are DD's in it's purest form. All of their job abilities are related to dealing / taking damage. (Dealing mainly, with a few defensive options for when they do out-dd other jobs). All the other "DD's" are what I would consider hybrids.

    Therefore WAR & MNK need to be on top of the pyramid for DD otherwise that would be amongst the many posts using the word thrown around a lot lately - "unbalanced".


    *edit* forgot quotes but this was replying to the bunch of people saying "then why aren't the other weapons on glav / chlor path as powerful".....

    This sir/madaam, is more then likely your major reason.
    (1)
    Last edited by Alderin; 12-26-2011 at 09:30 PM.

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