Thank you for Stardiver!

[brayen]

I do more damage on RDM and PLD than I do on my DRG. My RDM's tier4's do about 1400ish when unresisted, Impacts do 1800-2.2k. Requiescat does nice damage 1300-1400ish, do some nice 2k Holy II's as well.

That is a joke right?

[Transmit]

I'm unsure about Requiescat and PLD, but sadly on my BLU/war I probably out damage my Dragoon on most VW mobs, CDC is one hell of a powerful WS, and being able to go BLU/war and get berzerk, aggresor, dual wield 3, double attack, triple attack, etc actually makes it a more dangerous melee DD than my DRG... which is kind of depressing.

[frozenbear]

@Brayen: The sad truth is that on rdm he very well might be able to out damage his dragoon. But probably not on his pld.
on a typical mob you are hitting for about 350 + 200 from your wyvern (at least i do) you ws for around 1500 - 2kish damage + 270ish from breath (assuming saurian) spirit jump for 500ish soul jump for 500ish ws again seigan thrid eye meditate hit twice ws again.. etc but what he isn't telling you is that a crit froma drg will hit for 500+ so factor those in also factor in that sometimes your ws can hit for 800ish.... or 2900 , then there is the occasional 1k spirit jump, the even more occasional 2500+ spirit jump, the occasional 1k soul jump, etc... so yeah, his rdm may very well outdamage his drg. but not on every mob.

[brayen]

@Brayen: The sad truth is that on rdm he very well might be able to out damage his dragoon. But probably not on his pld.
on a typical mob you are hitting for about 350 + 200 from your wyvern (at least i do) you ws for around 1500 - 2kish damage + 270ish from breath (assuming saurian) spirit jump for 500ish soul jump for 500ish ws again seigan thrid eye meditate hit twice ws again.. etc but what he isn't telling you is that a crit froma drg will hit for 500+ so factor those in also factor in that sometimes your ws can hit for 800ish.... or 2900 , then there is the occasional 1k spirit jump, the even more occasional 2500+ spirit jump, the occasional 1k soul jump, etc... so yeah, his rdm may very well outdamage his drg. but not on every mob.

well dont get me wrong i dont doubt the damage capabilities of a rdm nuking, but considering nuking has NEVER outdone meleeing(outside of phy res/ magic damage bonus), on top you have rdm with more responsibilities to staggers and heals, on top of no miser roll/save tp atma..i just dont see rdm outdamaging unless you are talking like rex? who has major phy reduction and the reverse is true about his magical res.

[Ophannus]

Talking about hightier level 99 content like T5-T6 not level 95 loltier3 stuff. No DRG hits for 300-350 on Botolus Rex, Kalaasutrax or Ig-Alima and does WS over 1.5k. At least on RDM I'm practically assured 800-1.3k+ nukes with /SCH and Ascetics. Even on Bot which has damage reduction, I'm still doing like 600-700 while other melee edging close to 2k. Only time I did really nice damage on tier 6 stuff was in a JP alliance where we had 2 brds and 2 cors cycled instantly between the tank and DD parties before pop so everyone got 4 songs and 4 rolls and had a RDM keep up Dia III always.

[Aana]

No, none of the comparisons are in Abyssea; I'm pretty sure that was stated early on. Crit weaponskills rule in Abyssea, so there's no real point in comparing Stardiver builds there other than academic interest (or you're on sam).

Also, feel free to provide the 'perfect' gear sets for the respective builds (including jumps) and I'll look into how they compare.

Little late, but sure. This is my current drakes build. Not quite 'perfect'. Changes left for me are the
*Aesir to 4atk/25TP bonus WOTG earring. ends up being i believe 3.75% crit rate.
*strigoi to pyrosoul IF it breaks a tier on WSC or Fstr. I cant be arsed honestly.
*Heca feet need better augs than my 2str 5atk. Obviously perfect would be str/atk/polearm.

Specific to me stuff due to Ryunohige aftermath (OA2-3). Take with grain of salt for everyone else.
*4str earring over brutal. This is a Ryunohige specific adjustment because i get stupid amounts of DA/TA diminishing the effect of brutal. I think brutal wins for everyone else.
*Lancer hands>Heca 4crit damage/6acc augment. Another Ryunohige specific adjustment. The DA gets washed out by aftermath again, though i havent run numbers on this one without aftermath, so it may be better anyway /shrug.
*Prosilio belt: Again, the massive aftermath waters down the -5%DA so much it still wins for me. Dont know if this is still best option for non-Ryu drgs or not.

Optionals: These mostly depend on situational aspects like the value of Ddex, acc or STP, but thats mob dependant and 5hit build dependant.
Rajas>Pyrosoul. (Ddex variable)
Lancer Body>Aces. (Ddex/Acc/5 or 6hit build variables).
Rose grip>Claymore 3%crit rate. (5/6hit dependant)

With those coniderations, im pretty sure this is as good as it gets right now until we get Nyzul gear (/drool!)

My Stardiver set is similar show here.

Planned upgrades to make it 'perfect':
Atheling>Cerb+1
Aesir>WotG 4atk/25TP
Raja>Pyro
Strigoi>Pyro (i cant be arsed)

Situational
Brutal>4str earring (Ryu aftermath consideration)
Lancer Body>Aces (Acc/STP consideration)
Rose grip>Anything else. But i dont know who would devote grip to Str grip.

That should just about do it unless i missed something. Fairly straightforward for stardiver. Drakes is a little more funky since you have to basically decide to make concessions for dex or not since halfassing it wont have any affect at all, but going for it and over/undershooting is bad too with teh dumb crit rates and very target specific. The only other real consideration with my builds is anything regarding DA. My aftermath diminishes additional DA so much it just doesnt compete well, but for the other 99%, it should be fine.

Again, drakes only beats stardiver with teh very, very high damage lances while stardiver wins with lower damage. I have only mathed it up for Ryu base damage and OAT lance damages and it was very clear. I dont know where the watershed damage is, though it is sure to vary based on race and minor junk like that, but its somewhere between 139 and 102 (i did orginal calcs at lv 95 OAT D102 version).

You REALLY need to have all the crit gear for Drakes to keep up. You have to have enough crit rate to beat down that -20% atk penalty otherwise stardiver just rapes drakes.

[Ophannus]

Yo Montenen, real quick, would Sceamol Band be better than Mekira-oto for Jumps with OAT lance? Together with Sceamol I can get ~18% Double Attack/2% Triple Attack/1% Quadruple Attack in my Spirit/Soul Jump sets. With those factored in with ~40% OAT would Sceamol's 5% DA outperform Mekira-oto? My reasoning is that even though DA is diminished in effect with OAT, I figure it would still push my double attack rate on Jumps closer to 100% and since a DA/OAT Jump= 80-120% TP I figure it would grant more damage via direct jump damage (by way of double hit on use) and by increase TP and therfore WS frequency. Of course I'd lose 15 STR and about 10 Attack, but if I can get even 2-3% increase chance of a double-hit Spirit/Soul Jump I think it's increased DA would lend itself to more DoT than the +str/att.


P.S I'm using Windbuffet Belt for waist slot, I figured in a sample size of 100 jumps, I'd get on average 2 Triple Attack Jumps and 1 Quadruple Attack Jump. A Triple Attack Jump does about 1500 and a quadruple attack does about 1900 both give well over 100% TP. Would the extra damage for 2 triple attacks and 1 quadruple attack jumps and the TP for WS they grant outdo other belts that give STR/ATT for example? I figure 5-6STR and/or 12 Attack from anguinus would only add single or low double-digit damage to each Jump and in 100 Jumps that's maybe in the low hundreds worth of extra damage whereas 1 or 2 Triple/Quad jumps will easily outdo that.

[Motenten]

Actually, there's a bug in there (and wouldn't have noticed without this question; thanks). It seems I didn't create the calculations for average hits per round based on actual gear worn for jumps, but used the value from the corresponding primary melee set. I'm going to have to correct that to find a proper answer. Will get back to you when it's updated.

[Ophannus]

OK thanks! Really trying hard to decide whether I should bother gearing for STR/ATT on Jumps or +Multi Attack. The hidden third option I forgot to consider is +Crit Damage% but there's not much for DRG besides AF3 legs(10%) Moogle expansion head(+3%) and heca hands+1 augment(+4%) but I figure for hands +4% from AF3 would be better even with OAT but I'll wait for you to get back to me.

[frozenbear]

windbuffet belt? (for multi hits I mean of course ^^)
I have never seen crit hits give me the kind of results that multi-hits dishes out on jumps.
Very nice damage.